Report The NRA and the supposed UN Global Gun Ban in LAVA Lounge Posted December 7, 2009 I think the gravity of the punishment doesn't lend itself to a gray-type argument: if you're for capital punishment, then how do you define "... beyond any shadow of a doubt, incontrovertibly guilty and beyond social redemption"? Avoiding gray areas is my goal also; that's why the whole "reasonable doubt" concept is insufficient in death-penalty cases. What I was getting at with the notion of "incontrovertible guilt" is a situation where there is no doubt whatsoever that the accused committed the crime. The accused is holding a smoking gun, the victim's blood is splattered all over the accused, DNA from the accused is found in the relevant body cavities of the victim, and 100 reputable witnesses saw the crime in broad daylight. Or, in the case of Gacy, the accused's basement contains the bodies of over 30 victims, all of whom having the accused's DNA on or in them. Evil, beyond social redemption, is illustrated when the accused asserts that they enjoyed what they did, they have no remorse, and they'll do it again if they can, and these statements are backed up by multiple psychological profiles which substantiate those assertions. The examples I brought up -- Gacy and Bundy -- illustrate both of these concepts well.