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The 5th dimension

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QUOTE(hooovahh @ Jul 2 2007, 11:10 PM)

I guess the answer is, it depends on who you ask. Just like when asked what "Pi" is.

There was a school gym where all the girls were lined up on one side of the basketball court, and all the boys were lined up on the other side. The boys were asked to move towards the girls exactly half the distance between them. Then they were asked to do so again. And again... When asked if they would ever meet, the following answers were found:

Mathematician: "No."

Physicist: "Yes... for all intents and purposes." ;)

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All this discussion of the different disciplines reminds me of a study I once read about ...

MIT once studied the differences in approach to problem solving by engineers, physicists and mathematicians, so they invited a sample group up to the lab and ran a simple experiment. The participants were to be admited to the experiment chamber one at a time and told to observe and take whatever action they deemed appropriate.

The Engineer was admitted first and upon entering the room noted a fire blazing in the middle of the carpeted floor, with flames shooting almost to the ceiling. There was a bucket of water a few feet from the fire. The Engineer sprang to the bucket and quickly dumped the whole thing on the fire, which went completely out, filling the room with steam and creating a considerable mess. The Engineer then exited the room and announced, "I've solved the problem."

The study group murmured among themselves, took copious notes, cleaned up the mess and reset the experiement. The Physicist was admitted next.

The Physicist walked in, observed the fire and water, walked quickly but carefully around both, then picked up the bucket and carefully poured about 3/4 of it on the fire, extinguishing all but a single ember, which was then put out with a single extra drop. This produced minimal steam, almost no mess and an incredibly smug grin on the Physicists face while exiting the room and announcing, "I've solved the problem."

The study group repeated the murmur, writing and resetting drill and showed the Mathematician to the door.

The Mathematician walked in, stopped. A slow walk around the fire ensued, followed by a repeat around the water. The Mathematician looked up at the ceiling, seemingly lost in thought for a few seconds, then looked back at the fire, said, "Yes! Of course!" strode briskly out the door and announced, "A solution exists."

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QUOTE(Mike Ashe @ Jul 3 2007, 11:34 AM)

All this discussion of the different disciplines reminds me of a study I once read about ...

:thumbup:

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QUOTE(Mike Ashe @ Jul 2 2007, 06:34 PM)

All this discussion of the different disciplines reminds me of a study I once read about ...

You forgot the last part ...

The Manager walked in, observed the fire and water, and then walked quickly out of the room exclaiming, "I'm looking to staff a technical lead for a hot new project!" :P

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To have access to more information we have to live in a big city. Here in Cluj in libraries doesn’t have books about the strings theory. When I worked at Honeywell in Toronto, they had a card and I used it to take books from UofT(I was writing my book). Nobody was using that card because people are not interested in new things. For example my manager, the software engineer manager did X-rays for people, he was a nurse.

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QUOTE(alfa @ Jul 3 2007, 08:06 AM)

To have access to more information we have to live in a big city. Here in Cluj in libraries doesn't have books about the strings theory. When I worked at Honeywell in Toronto, they had a card and I used it to take books from UofT(I was writing my book). Nobody was using that card because people are not interested in new things. For example my manager, the software engineer manager did X-rays for people, he was a nurse.

Ce Fac!

You're in Cluj? I'll be in Alba Iulia in a couple of weeks. My wife's from there originally. Probably spend more time in Maramures (spelling?) though. Much LabVIEW going on in Romania?

As to missing out on String theory, I wouldn't be too upset about that. I don't know if it'll survive the next 20 years or not. One of the few truths in science is that whatever we "know" today looks silly in 50 years time.

Apologies for my assault on the Romanian language, I do my best. With my son growing up learning from my wife, I'm kind of learning with him......

Ciao.

Shane.

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shoneill,

it's good to try any new language; in Europe it's about languages.

Alba Iulia was an important city long time ago.

LabVIEW is too expansive for Romania; here are a lot of programmers in C...; not many in string theory...

Now I am at this conference: http://www.math.ubbcluj.ro/~mserban/confan.html

In my case because of Yoga when I was in Canada, USA, Germany they were thinking I'm a spy; now in Romania they think I am a Canadian spy. For me it's amzing because I didn't know that the spies are doing research about God.

Your son will like the cakes here, the food...

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QUOTE(alfa @ Jul 5 2007, 09:45 AM)

shoneill,

it's good to try any new language; in Europe it's about languages.

Alba Iulia was an important city long time ago.

LabVIEW is too expansive for Romania; here are a lot of programmers in C...; not many in string theory...

Now I am at this conference: http://www.math.ubbcluj.ro/%7Emserban/confan.html' target="_blank">http://www.math.ubbcluj.ro/~mserban/confan.html

In my case because of Yoga when I was in Canada, USA, Germany they were thinking I'm a spy; now in Romania they think I am a Canadian spy. For me it's amzing because I didn't know that the spies are doing research about God.

Your son will like the cakes here, the food...

I've been to Romania four of five times already, once already with my son. He does indeed like the food. I do too, but the heat in summer can be too much for me.

Indeed, learning languages in Europe is more important than in other areas of the world. I'm glad my son's learning Romanian not just because he can then speak romanian, but also because other latin languages like Italian and French and Spanish are very similar and it makes it easier for him to learn these later too.

I kind of imagines LV would be a bit expensive for Romania. You know LV 6.1 is available for free download? Would be an interesting was to get people going on LV.

Enjoy the conference.....

Shane.

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Has alfa branched out to other languages?

This showed up on the Matlab usenet.

QUOTE

Do a monte carlo simulation of the value of Pi and use my odds and even program to determine what the next value of Pi will be with MATLAB.

It is call PROCESS PHYSICS EQUATION or PSE rather than the opposite the unscience ESP.

It is also the Jesus equation program hence it is rational.

Try it out on Matlab.

Steve.

WHY IS IT NOT SO THAT DETERMINSM IS TRUE.?

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QUOTE(Gary Rubin @ Jul 5 2007, 03:39 PM)

Has alfa branched out to other languages?

It's a bit too coherent. :wacko:

Actually, alfa seems to use his real name, which isn't Steve, so I don't think that's him. Then again, you never know. :ninja:

Shane, if you're not heat-resistant be sure to stay away from where I live. :rolleyes:

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My view about God:

God is out of time, the past, the present and the futere are one.

This means any ‘mathematical expression’ of God, doesn’t contains time, doesn’t contains time like a variable.

This is very important, because this means:

GOS is the same, is constant !

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QUOTE(alfa @ Jul 10 2007, 02:59 AM)

My view about God:

God is out of time, the past, the present and the futere are one.

This means any 'mathematical expression' of God, doesn't contains time, doesn't contains time like a variable.

This is very important, because this means:

GOS is the same, is constant !

Five stars to you Alfa!

:star::star::star::star::star:

I gotta go with that one!

Now if you are with me re: space and time being related then would you agree that God is also not a function of position as well?

Ben

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Hi Ben,

Where is everybody?

Did I exorcise the demons?(talking about God).

Time and space are related for example in Minkowski space; people when they 'look' at God they start from space, the mathematicians…everybody is thinking at space(they see matter around). We don't know the space yet, how many dimensions...

I was looking at time to find the solution.

I don’t know if somebody says it before:

"We will be killed by a clock, not by a rock"

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QUOTE(alfa @ Jul 13 2007, 08:34 PM)

"We will be killed by a clock, not by a rock"

I dunno - he looks pretty scary to me...

(SC)The_Rock_Photo.jpg

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OK it sounds we are on the same page.

I do not think you have exorsized any demons. I think that may be the sound of people thinking Alfa. :thumbup:

I do not think math is a tool that can in anyway restrict God but I think it is a tool we can use to gain a depper understanding of God.

**** Today's crazy pre-coffee thought ****

It has been said that God created man (humans) in his (generic) image. I have a hard time understanding this in terms of our appearence because our appearence is limited to space time and we agree that God is not confined by same.

I think of the "image" as being qualites of God that also apply to man (humans). One aspect of man that I think we share is with God is again reflected in the creation story. While God "created" out of nothingness (barah ?) humans can create from something.

When I was young I used to do a lot of sculpting. No matter how hard I tried I could not create something that did not bear my mark. If I was working with with wood, the nauture of my hands were reflected in the cuts I made. If I was working with clay, my finger prints would be all over the work.

I also believe that Gods finger prints are all over his creation. So what do I think God's finger prints look like?

From my faulty view point they appear to look a lot like

e

pi

i (the imaginary operator)

1

0

It seems if I look hard enough at God's creation I will eventualy find those "finger prints".

****** Question exposing my ignorance *****

I never had a good understanding of "the fine structure constant".

What is it and were do I have to look to see it?

So what do YOU think?

Ben

PS: Did anyone els notice that "The 5th dimension" thread alone accounts for more than 1% of all of the posting to LAVA? :oops:

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QUOTE(Ben @ Jul 13 2007, 07:27 AM)

I also believe that Gods finger prints are all over his creation. So what do I think God's finger prints look like?

Ben

I agree with you ,infact the bible says that we are made in the Image of GOD.= Part of GOD is in us,so we can be creative.

And Create things like GOD.

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QUOTE(ohiofudu @ Jul 13 2007, 06:31 PM)

Ben

I agree with you ,infact the bible says that we are made in the Image of GOD.= Part of GOD is in us,so we can be creative.

And Create things like GOD.

I normally steer clear of discussions like this, but whatever the nature of "god" then I think the same constraints of mathematics and physics apply there as everywhere else. Out understanding of it might be limited, but Mathematics and Physics (the physical representation of mathematics if you will) is truly universal.

Shane.

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QUOTE(shoneill @ Jul 14 2007, 05:02 AM)

I normally steer clear of discussions like this,

Shane

Me Too :o

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Ben,

how I calculated in my book: only 1 in 1300 people can experince God. People like politicians, scientists...are talking about God but they don't have anything to do with God.

Shane,

math and physics don't help much. Penrose, Weinberg... wrote about God but nothing there has something related to God.

I didn't know this things before, that's why my book is important because brings some lights to show how looks the society.

For the society a book about God(like my book) is the same(or less) like a cooking book; because the majority don't have anything to do with God; they are at animal level. In the past people who bought something new didn't have an easy life.

The solution will be my Evolution project to bring high level people in one place to work only on spiritual things.

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QUOTE(alfa @ Jul 16 2007, 03:56 AM)

Ben,

how I calculated in my book: only 1 in 1300 people can experince God. People like politicians, scientists...are talking about God but they don't have anything to do with God.

Shane,

math and physics don't help much. Penrose, Weinberg... wrote about God but nothing there has something related to God.

I didn't know this things before, that's why my book is important because brings some lights to show how looks the society.

For the society a book about God(like my book) is the same(or less) like a cooking book; because the majority don't have anything to do with God; they are at animal level. In the past people who bought something new didn't have an easy life.

The solution will be my Evolution project to bring high level people in one place to work only on spiritual things.

Forgive me Alfa but are you trying to kill this thread?

Were did you get the "1 in 1300" come from?

Would mind please expanding on some of your other assertions?

RE: staying away from conversations like this

I like many others was (were) brought up never to talk about God politics and something else (that I can't recall).

But I have never been good at following rules. :rolleyes:

If I take a risk and talk about God I figure I have everything to win and nothing to loose.

Besides, I have had some of my best God discusion while talking to scientist.

I recently read a reprint of the only book writtne by Newton that was God realated. In modern society he is refered to as a "Physisist" or a "mathematician". If what I have read is correct, he concidered himslef a "Natural Science Philosopher".

WHat a long wway we have come over the last 400 years.

So I wonder out loud, "what is wrong about talking about God?"

Ben

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QUOTE(Ben @ Jul 17 2007, 12:11 AM)

I like many others was (were) brought up never to talk about God... So I wonder out loud, "what is wrong about talking about God?"

This is the LAVA Lounge - nothing's off-topic here :D

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QUOTE(alfa @ Jul 16 2007, 03:56 AM)

I smell a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dianetics' target="_blank">Dianetics / L. Ron Hubbard book in the making.

I tried to read Dianetics on a looonnng bus ride once, just to understand what people were talking about. I just didn't get it :wacko:

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QUOTE(Ben @ Jul 16 2007, 09:11 AM)

I recently read a reprint of the only book writtne by Newton that was God realated. In modern society he is refered to as a "Physisist" or a "mathematician". If what I have read is correct, he concidered himslef a "Natural Science Philosopher".

I think part of that is because science hadn't really formed into the discrete disciplines we have today. It was all sort of "so how does the world work?" I always find it odd that Newton was also an alchemist.

QUOTE

So I wonder out loud, "what is wrong about talking about God?"

I think the Hindu guy that tried to give an invoation before Congress recently might wonder the same thing.

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