Tom Bress

QUOTE (Tim_S @ Aug 21 2008, 08:57 AM)

There are federal regulations in certain industries (like power generation) requiring you have to have a PE sign off on any design before it can be implemented (I think this also impacts contracted work). This provides some protection for the company as the PE takes some liability for the design in that it will work and it will not negatively impact other systems (as in moving this thermostat will not impact the safety systems keeping the power plant from blowing up... seriously). A PE that signs off on bad designs will shortly be out of work with, at best, a bad employer reference. To pass the PE, you have to show broad knowledge beyond your field. The first part of the exam is in your field; the second part occurs years later and cannot be in your field.

I think you have that last part backwards. The first exam is very broad, and all engineers in all disciplines take the same test. The second exam (the blue book written test) is in your discipline. For example, when I took the second exam it was specifically in the field of mechanical engineering.

Another interesting point (and one that will be fodder for a future blog post) is that having advanced degrees in engineering may modify the requirements for getting a PE, typically in the years of experience required. If you hold both a bachelor's and PhD in the same discipline from ABET accredited programs then the requirement for the first (general) exam is waived.

That's interesting because NI cuts no slack in the certification process for advanced users. This was one of the most common complaints I heard at NI week. Let's say you are a non-certified long-time "advanced" LabVIEW practioner who is working at the CLA level and you want to get certified. You have to start by paying for and taking the CLAD exam. Then you have to pay for and take the CLD exam. Then you have to pay for and take the CLA exam. Even if you are motivated to get certified, that's a lot of hoops to jump through before you get to your appropriate exam level. NI should consider some way of allowing "demonstrably advanced" users take the CLD or CLA without having to take the CLAD first.

QUOTE (crelf @ Aug 20 2008, 04:14 PM)

Here comes another thread hijack - I've heard of the PE membership here in Michigan, and I'm at a loss to really understand what it means. I cruised the website and I think the most I could find out was that it's a group of folks that like to network the synergies (eg: the mission of MSPE is to "promote the ethical, competent and licensed practice of engineering, and to enhance the professional, social and economic well-being of its members"), but what does a Professional Engineer certification really mean? To bring it back on topic a little, if I had to choose between two candidates, why would I choose a PE over a non-PE? Also, I don't see anything about certification requirements to join - is it just a "I work as an engineer and here's my entrance fee"-style application?

PS: The link to the "in-line application" on is broken.

The PE is the engineering profession's attempt to forge a professional identity similar to that of doctors and lawyers. The national board mission is similar to the MSPE one that you quoted, and is similar to that of the American Medical Association or the bar association. To become a PE you have to do the following:

1. Pass a fundamentals exam (four hours long, multiple choice, covers a broad range of engineering topics from every engineering discipline, math, and econimics). The test questions are pretty easy if you know something about the subject, but cover a very broad range. Think CLAD on steroids.

2. Pass an advanced exam. This is a blue-book, college final type exam in your particular engineering discipline. Four hours, ten multiple-part questions, you get to choose which four you will answer. Open book. Think CLA-level exam.

3. Have a certain number of years work experience

4. Have four letters of recommendation from fellow PEs that have knowledge of your work

It isn't easy to get your PE, and a candidate who has one has worked hard to get it. The unfortunate reality is that it isn't really necessary to have one to be an engineer so the goal of the organization, the professionalization of engineers, is hamstrung. You need a PE to do certain kinds of government work, to put an engineering "seal" on architectural plans, to be an expert witness in a court of law, and most importantly to become a private consultant and offer your services to the public using the title "Engineer". But there is something called the "industrial exemption" that allows engineers in industry (not private practice) to practice engineering without being a PE. Since this covers >95% of working engineers most do not opt for licensure.

One interesting note, though. Legally speaking, non-licensed engineers are not considered "Engineers". They are considered "Engineering service providers".

There are also engineering licensing boards in other countries. They have similar requirements as the US, but vary in the actual details of implementation.

QUOTE (TobyD @ Aug 20 2008, 12:14 PM)

That said, my brother and his wife are both registered nurses. Neither of them has worked as a nurse for the last 3 years, but they continue to pay a small fee each year to keep their RN licenses active in case they ever want to get back into nursing. There is no recertification required at all. They could come back after 15 years (and they both know people who have) and start right up, notwithstanding the advances in medical technology, etc. (There is not really a point to this paragraph, just thought it was interesting).

I hold a Professional Engineer license in the state of Michigan and recertification is handled the same way. You pay a fee every two years to keep your license current, there is no retesting required.

There is a new poll on my blog: What is the optimum time period for recertification? Stop by and cast your vote.

The first poll is now closed. The question was "Is certification a good thing for the LabVIEW community?" There were 28 responses, with 89% saying "Yes" and 11% saying "No". So the majority thinks it is a good thing, but the minority negative opinion is sizable.

QUOTE (corneydavid @ Aug 18 2008, 03:17 PM)

Before I finish let me address the topic of certification for NI employees. The biggest stumbling block to internal certification has been resources. We simply don't have enough people to mark exams for both external and internal candidates. We are working on ways to reduce the level of effort required to administer and mark a practical exam, but we have not reached that point yet.

David Corney

Training and Certification Program Manager

P.S. I also get to mark CLD exams occasionally and I am not certified. I am not allowed to take the exams, because I mark them.

Thanks for joining the discussion (and thanks for signing my certificate!). I've just posted a http://bress-paper-chase.blogspot.com/' rel='nofollow' target="_blank">new entry on my blog that addresses this issue. Here is my suggestion in a nutshell: why not create an external certification advisory board? The idea would be for NI to create a board of certified individuals to help grade exams and to otherwise assist and advise NI with certification issues. It would reduce the grading load on NI employees, it would get the community more involved and more represented in the certification process, and it would help interested NI folk who grade exams get certified by providing outsiders who could "grade the graders". NI would issue invitations to join the board and NI would of course retain all authority in issuing certifications. NI would also (hopefully) create some kind of incentive to make board membership worthwhile to the members. I think it would be a win-win situation for all involved.

QUOTE (Ton @ Aug 19 2008, 02:11 PM)

Hijack succeeded.

In the Netherlands it's quite normal to have you marital status on your resume (including children).

The question I got was 'If I call your wife what will she tell about you'.

This are items that are relevant to a job. For instance I got the question today if I could enter a support team for our company. This includes traveling to other countries for two weeks, heavy night work. Someone that is married and has children is not very suitable for such a job.

It are question regarding your fitness for such jobs.

Ton

You would have to ask the question more directly here in the US. Something like "This job requires extensive travel and heavy night work. Is that a problem for you?". Just don't mention marriage and family. When I was interviewing in college I knew women who were engaged that would remove their engagement rings for interviews to avoid signaling their status to the interviewer.

An EE college acquaintance actually got this one in an interview. It isn't LabVIEW related but you might like it:

You are shown a circuit diagram and two black boxes, each with a pair of terminals on the top. One box contains an implementation of the equivalent Thevenen circuit of the given diagram and the other contains an implementation of the equivalent Norton circuit. You are not allowed to look inside the boxes but you can perform whatever other tests you wish. How do determine which box is which?

Hey, I resemble that remark! I guess it is appropriate for it to be a "G" man.

I have recently joined the ranks of the Wii-enabled and have spent more time making Miis than I have playing games. I have decided to put my personal Mii to work by having him represent me on the LAVA forums.

I think that it is a pretty good likeness. When my two-year-old boy saw it on the screen he pointed and said "It's Daddy!". That's good enough for me.

One problem with Miis is that it isn't obvious how to get them off of the Wii and onto a computer. The way I did it was to use a flash-based Mii emulator, found here. If you are interested, check it out soon. This guy's first emulator was shut down due to legal action by Nintendo. He hopes that this second version is different enough to avoid trouble, but who knows how long it will be in operation.

QUOTE (Jim Kring @ Aug 17 2008, 07:18 PM)

Welcome, Tom, to the LabVIEW blog community. It's very interesting how the certification topic generates such passionate debate and discussion!

I'll reiterate http://thinkinging.com/2006/12/17/why-labview-certification-matters-to-me/' rel='nofollow' target="_blank">my perspective on certification, which is that certification is an important part of sharpening the tool, both for the individuals getting certificated certified and for the organizations that encourage the practice. As crelf alludes to, most work comes from having great solutions, created by skilled engineers, and a track-record of success. Making sure that your team and organization stay sharp is what enables this process.

Certification might not be a great value for every team, but it sure is for ours.

Cheers,

I experienced some of that "passionate debate" at NI Week. That's why I thought it would be a good focus for a blog. Thanks for the link to your post on certification, I hadn't read it before though I have been following your blog recently. Your blog was the first LabVIEW-related blog that I ever came across, and it inspired me to start my own.

QUOTE (ASTDan @ Aug 18 2008, 07:31 AM)

However next years NI week will be a disapointment... Where do you go from here.

Maybe I'll actually get to attend some sessions other than the keynotes!

QUOTE (crelf @ Aug 18 2008, 09:12 AM)

You can have it when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.

I took the CLA exam while I was at NI Week and I just found out that I passed!

Man, what an NI Week. I got bumped to first class on the flight to Austin, took the CPI training, gave a talk, won the Wii at the LAVA BBQ, and passed the CLA exam. I should have bought a lottery ticket while I was there!

QUOTE (zorro @ Aug 15 2008, 11:58 AM)

Hi, jdunham,

Thank you for your help.

The analog triggering is not in a subvi in my main program. I can't post my main program here. It is a huge one. But I write a vi which has the same structure and setting with the triggering part in my main program. Let's call this vi as "TestTriggering".

A new problem with this TestTriggering.vi is that it always generate a strong noise, which doesn't show in my main program. I hope you can help me with this problem and the random drop.

Thank you so much.

I have a question about the graphs you posted. Are you plotting the output of your analog out channel directly? Or are you outputting a voltage, and then reading it in through an analog input and plotting what you read?

I have seen dropouts like the one you describe, but they were due to analog input buffer overflows, not due to analog output problems. Analog outputs should be rock solid. But analog input can be problematic if you are buffering. If you acquire data too quickly, or if your buffer is too small, you overrun the buffer and can get dropouts as seen in your graphs. Try lowering the acquisition speed or increasing buffer size and see if the problem goes away.

QUOTE (Darren @ Aug 15 2008, 11:39 AM)

• The downloadable games are a blast (from the past). If you have an HDTV you'll want to make sure to configure it for "game mode" (if possible), because there's a fair bit of lag when playing the old skool Nintendo games with the Wiimote.
  

-D

Do you play the downloadable "old skool" games with the wiimote, or did you buy the Wii classic controller? I'm more of an old skool Sega man myself and I'm looking forward to getting some of the Nintendo titles that I missed the first time around, but I'm guessing that the classic controller is the way to go.

QUOTE (LV_FPGA_SE @ Aug 15 2008, 11:25 AM)

I've also heard this rumor floating around NI, but it is not true. Given the need for experienced LV users in the field, a lack of certification is not preventing any NI engineer from finding a different job if they really want to leave NI. Any LV programmer who has the proper LV coding experience would be able to prove their worth to a potential employer in a short amount of time. In the end certification is just a piece of paper, what you do or know to get the certification is what will bring you or your employer the benefits and value.

I would hope that if anyone is hiring a LV programmer into their organization they are not relying solely on the certification of a given candidate in making a hiring decision.

This is exactly the kind of discussion I was looking for when I started the blog. What does certification mean and why should you get it? Here's the thing: you stated that "Given the need for experienced LV users in the field, a lack of certification is not preventing any NI engineer from finding a different job if they really want to leave NI". Let's rephrase that to "Given the need for experienced LV users in the field, a lack of certification is not preventing anyone finding an LV job". If that is true (and it probably is), why bother getting certified? Certification is valuable in a crowded field of applicants, but if there is no crowd (indeed, if the market is hungry for LV programmers) than why bother? If you are talented you should be able to prove it in an interview even if you don't have the piece of paper. Indeed, some well-known employers make applicants take their own internal exam anyway. So what's the point in getting certified?

I'm the lucky guy who won the Wii at the LAVA BBQ during NI Week. It comes with Wii Sports, my favorite so far is Tennis. Strangely enough, my wife's favorite is Boxing. I'm looking for recommendations of other Wii games. So far it looks like many of the games out there are ports that don't take advantage of the Wii remote's capabilities. So, what games do you like? I'm particularly interested in family-friendly games. Also, has anyone tried the classic games available for the Virtual Console, or the downloadable games available from Wii Ware? Any opinions of web-surfing with the Wii Internet Channel?

Thanks!

A new post is up based on a recent forum discussion. Do we need more CPIs? It also poses the question: now that NI employees can get certified, will NI encourage/require their in-house teachers to get CPIs?

QUOTE (jcarmody @ Aug 14 2008, 12:28 PM)

CPI was easier to get than CLD. I spent about 5 hours in a TX NI classroom, made a short presentation (about while loops) and went home. I've taught two LabVIEW Basics (I & II) classes. Teaching is fun, not at all like working! The preparation beforehand is a lot of work, though.

Jim

CLD/CPI

I agree, the training was pretty easy. But that's because of two factors:

1. You need your CLD first, so they don't have to give you any technical training about LabVIEW and such

2. Anyone who has fear of or difficulty with teaching and public speaking would never take the course in the first place.

That second point is key. From talking with the other trainees in my class it was obvious that we all had previous experience with this sort of thing. That makes the training much easier for NI and the trainees.

QUOTE (Bryan @ Aug 14 2008, 06:19 AM)

Are there any prerequisites to obtaining a CPI? I thought you had to be a CLA before being able to be an instructor.

You do need to be a CLA if you want to teach the Advanced I course.

QUOTE (Tom Bress @ Aug 13 2008, 08:45 PM)

We need more CPIs...

QUOTE (crelf @ Aug 13 2008, 08:56 PM)

Yes, we do. In my last blog post I talked about how most NI application engineers and teachers have at most two years experience, and then move on elsewhere in the company. NI wants more CPIs because CPIs are usually much more experienced than NI teachers. Plus, since most NI trainers are non-certified and CPIs must have their CLDs, CPIs are more qualified to teach. When NI gets requests from companies for in-house training they prefer to send CPIs rather than their own trainers because of the experience issue.

Of course, NI also likes local CPIs since they don't have to fly and house their own engineers around the country. But I was speaking to a well-traveled CPI who lives in Austin while I was at NI Week. Even though NI has to fly him around and house him they still prefer to send him rather than their own people.

I also think it is a community issue. Why rely on NI to do all the teaching, everywhere? NI makes hardware and software, their focus is not application engineering and teaching. Those are things that we, the LabVIEW community, can and should do for ourselves.

QUOTE (Bryan @ Aug 14 2008, 06:19 AM)

Are there any prerequisites to obtaining a CPI? I thought you had to be a CLA before being able to be an instructor.

You have to be a CLD.

I took the Certified Professional Instructor training course while I was at NI Week, and I passed! The training is pretty easy if you have previous experience with and enjoy teaching and/or public speaking. We need more CPIs, I recommend it to anyone who is interested and would like to make money teaching LabVIEW (or TestStand, or DAQ, or image processing...).

I hope that NI OOP Cruise thing is wildly successful. Imagine a fleet of NI cruise ships...where do I volunteer to sign up as an instructor?

Oh yeah, first I have to learn OOP... :headbang:

QUOTE (jgcode @ Aug 13 2008, 07:29 PM)

Hence the reason I am looking to go to Perforce and run it off my server and use check in/check out. I just makes sense to me. Having been stung by the above two points (hey its all a learning curve for me) .

Even though I am a lone developer I have put my code repository on a server. That way, no matter what computer I'm on, I can get a working copy of my repository, make changes, and commit them back to the server. I do this using edit/merge instead of check in/check out. I just make sure that I commit my changes often, which is good SCC practice anyway.

QUOTE (normandinf @ Aug 12 2008, 12:01 PM)

I would think check-in/check-out is better for my needs, as I'm a lone wireworker at the moment.

Can these SCC schema be changed at a later date or is the initial choice final?

If you are a lone wolf then I would recommend the edit-merge. Since you are the only one working on a given file, you'll never have to merge and you'll avoid having to check files in and out. Why check them in and out if you are the only one working on them?

My promised post about NI's recent change of policy regarding employee certification is now up.

QUOTE (Tom Bress @ Aug 12 2008, 12:59 PM)

Yes, the rules have changed. That will be the subject of my next post. Stay tuned...