Web Apllication requirements

[prayami]

Hi,

We are in a stage to decide the technology to use for Web Application.

We have our on instrument which will have embedded web server on it. And through internet, it will be accessed through remote computer.

Question:

(1) Does LabVIEW Web Server can be embedded into the microcontroller ?

(2) On server side( on our instrument ) is there anything require other than Embedded Web Server?

Or anything that need to be considered?

(3) On client side, as per I know, it is required LabVIEW runtime environment. Is there any thing else that might require to consider.

(4) Please let me know the issues & limitations for embedded web server and remote application in LabVIEW.

Thanks in advance.

[Norm Kirchner]

(1) Does LabVIEW Web Server can be embedded into the microcontroller ?

(2) On server side( on our instrument ) is there anything require other than Embedded Web Server?

Or anything that need to be considered?

(3) On client side, as per I know, it is required LabVIEW runtime environment. Is there any thing else that might require to consider.

(4) Please let me know the issues & limitations for embedded web server and remote application in LabVIEW.

Thanks in advance.

1) What kind of microcontroller? Typically a true LV web server can NOT be run on a microcontroller.

2)To do what? what embedded Web Server

3)What kind of data do you want out, if you want to display an embedded front panel then no, but if you are using a microcontroller then you won't be able to have the web server running anyways.

4) If you neglect that you are talking about having this running on a microcontroller, since that can not happen, there are a number of limitations regarding embedded front panels on web pages w/ regards to control not being responsive enough, if a lot of data is being transferred you can lose connections, if the FP is too big you can have issues w/ the browsers and usability and as you use it i'm sure you'll find many other limitations. It's not the most polished product NI has in LV

[prayami]

Thanks Norm Kirchner,

We are going to use FPGA, where mostly use ARM 32bit AtMega microcontroller IP block.

Can we have Real Time Operating System on our microcontroller and can we run LabVIEW web

server inside that( i.e. I mean Embedded Web Server )?

On this server root there will be VIs & html files which will call those VIs.

Is this possible? As per your answer it is not possible to have LabVIEW web server without the PC?

QUOTE(Norm Kirchner @ Dec 4 2007, 10:41 AM)

(1) Does LabVIEW Web Server can be embedded into the microcontroller ?

(2) On server side( on our instrument ) is there anything require other than Embedded Web Server?

Or anything that need to be considered?

(3) On client side, as per I know, it is required LabVIEW runtime environment. Is there any thing else that might require to consider.

(4) Please let me know the issues & limitations for embedded web server and remote application in LabVIEW.

Thanks in advance.

1) What kind of microcontroller? Typically a true LV web server can NOT be run on a microcontroller.

2)To do what? what embedded Web Server

3)What kind of data do you want out, if you want to display an embedded front panel then no, but if you are using a microcontroller then you won't be able to have the web server running anyways.

4) If you neglect that you are talking about having this running on a microcontroller, since that can not happen, there are a number of limitations regarding embedded front panels on web pages w/ regards to control not being responsive enough, if a lot of data is being transferred you can lose connections, if the FP is too big you can have issues w/ the browsers and usability and as you use it i'm sure you'll find many other limitations. It's not the most polished product NI has in LV

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

QUOTE(prayami @ Dec 3 2007, 07:32 PM)

Thanks Norm Kirchner,

We are going to use FPGA, where mostly use ARM 32bit AtMega microcontroller IP block.

Then you would have to look at the http://www.ni.com/embedded/' target="_blank">LabVIEW for Embedded Edition version, but that is not cheap. And you will have to have to add support for your hardware target to this LabVIEW version to integrate the GNU toolchain or whatever other C toolchain you will use to write software for your controller board. This integration work should not be underestimated. Provided you have someone with a good familiarity with both your toolchain and LabVIEW its still several weeks of work before it will work just right.

QUOTE

Can we have Real Time Operating System on our microcontroller and can we run LabVIEW web

server inside that( i.e. I mean Embedded Web Server )?

Yes but not through LabVIEW. You will have to provide your own realtime OS solution such as VxWorks, Pharlap or whatever you can find for your CPU target and then integrate its toolchain into LabVIEW Embedded by writing some support VIs and such. The LabVIEW embedded Web Server is part of the LabVIEW kernel in the Development Module/runtime system and will not be transfered to an external embedded target at all.

QUOTE

On this server root there will be VIs & html files which will call those VIs.

Is this possible? As per your answer it is not possible to have LabVIEW web server without the PC?

An embedded application is really LabVIEW code translated into C and then compiled through the target specific toolchain including its C compiler. As such it comes from LabVIEW code but does not know how to load and execute native LabVIEW VIs at all. There will be no way to make your embedded target to load and run LabVIEW VIs. The only way to do that is by creating a target platform that is able to run one of the standard supported LabVIEW platforms such as Win32/x86 or Linux/x86. On such a platform you can simply install a full LabVIEW runtime system that is able to load and execute LabVIEW VIs natively. Or you buy a NI hardware platform with integrated OS such as Compact Fieldpoint or such. NI ported their LabVIEW kernel to run on those systems so they can load an run VIs directly. You can't do that yourself since you would need the LabVIEW source code for that (and LabVIEW itself does as far as I know not directly support ARM at least officially, so that would be out of question).

And no, the PDA versions of LabVIEW really do more something like what LabVIEW Embedded is doing by invoking the Visual C compiler for creating executables for the ARM based PDA devices. I'm not aware of any ARM based LabVIEW version sold, that could execute LabVIEW VIs directly, eventhough there probably is rudimentary support in the LabVIEW source code for ARM as indicated in the cintools headers, but I would guess that it is not really substantial and even if it would, it is most likely not very well tested (since only features that get actively used get enough test exposure to make sure they work at least halfway decently).

Rolf Kalbermatter