Louis Manfredi

Chris Davis' suggestion sounds like a good one to me-- I've never used virtual PC, so I can't second the suggestion for sure, but given my recent experiences it does sound like a good idea, assuming that the product is well implemented. I got myself into all kinds of trouble with 7.1.1 because (either through my own error, or due to a flaw in 8.0, or perhaps both) 8.0 had recompiled some 7.1.1 library vis so that when I ran into some show-stopper bugs with 8.0.1 and tried to go back to 7.1.1 the application builder no longer worked. (see http://forums.lavag.org/index.php?showtopic=3128 for all the gory details.) If virtual PC works well & the way Chris suggests, the $125 investment would have paid off for me severalfold in terms of the time I've spent going back to 7.1.1 that I can't justify billing to any of my clients. But, at the risk of showing a bad case of sour grapes, let me reiterate: Unless there's some feature in 8 that is absolutely essential to your needs, I would stick with 7.1.1 for now. I decided to make the transition to 8.0 because I was starting new projects for a couple of clients & it seemed like a good idea to start those projects using the latest version. Those projects are now being completed in version 7.1.1. Best Regards, Louis

Hi np: Hate to sound negative, but I'm coming out of a rather unpleasant adventure with LV 8.0/8.0.1. (At least I think I'm coming out of the adventure, I've had lots of help from both this forum and from NI support itself, and I'm optimistic that-- with that help-- by Monday I'll be securely home in the world of 7.1.) So I think perhaps you're asking the wrong questions. To me, the right questions are: 1. "What problems in general am I likely to encounter making the transition to 8.0?" (My answer would be: "more than you want."-- see the LV8 buglist, and also my post on the 7.1.1 bug list for problems I'm having with 7.1.1 since I managed to screw it up by using 8.0.1 on the same machine.) 2. "Why do I need to leave the relatively reliable world of 7.1.1 for the somewhat untested world of 8?" (That's for you to answer. From my point of view, there's lots of neat stuff in 8.x-- I'm looking forward to going back to 8.x eventualy, but in terms of being able to do all my current projects, 7.1.1 has more than I need and is reliable.) Be curious to hear how others feel. Am I just having a bad case of sour grapes, or am I giving np good advice? Best Regards, Louis

Hi Didierj: Your explanation sounds very likely-- I did not check to see if the LV 7.1 folder was gone or not... I should have thought to do so-- the more I think about this, the more I think that I too have had the same problem before. I'll try again doing the uninstall, but follow up with checking the deletion of the directory before doing the reinstall. I'm not planning to go back to LV 8.0 or 8.0.1-- its been a painful journey into the future for me & I'd rather stick to the present, which in my mind is 7.1.1. So I probably will not try the experiment you suggest to see if LV8, or my use of it, caused the problem. Hopefully the LV 8 testing will all be worked out by the folks paid to do so, rather than those of us who pay. Eventually, I'll change to 8.x where x>.0.1 Meanwhile, I never had problems with 7.1.1 till I started using 8-- so I'll keep to the simple solution, and not use 8. Thanks for your suggestion, I'll let you know how it turns out. Best Regards, Louis

Hi FSVZ: Try searching LabView help on "Variant" data types and "Polymorphic" vis. I'm pretty sure what you want to do can be done & from the way you form the question sounds like you'll be able to get a good start-- if not the whole answer-- searching on those terms. Good luck, keep us posted. If you run into difficulties some of us (not me unfortunately ) know quite a bit about how to impliment these things. Best Regards, Louis

Hi Kennon: Been tied up for a while on another project, but I've finally got back to this issue, and I think your post gets us pointed in the right direction! Many thanks! I checked the versions on the llb and the dll as you suggested, but both were present and appear to be of the correct version. So next, I opened up <lv7.1dir>\applibs\distkit\NiMsiDistKit.llb. I was able to open (front panel only-- locked diagrams) most of the vi's without error. However, two vi's flagged errors when I tried to open them: "Install copy redistribution files.vi" "Install create.vi" Attempting to open each, a number of their sub-vi's flagged "Error Code 9 Vi Version (8.0) is newer than LabView Version (7.1.1)" The same sub-vis flagged the error for both of the broken vis: "Open Config Data.vi" "Config Data Refnum" "Config Data Modify.vi" "Config Data Modify functions.ctl" "Close Config Data.vi" Interestingly, when I try to place "Open Config Data.vi" on a diagram (it is in the file menu-- I use it occasionally, but not for this particular project) I also get the newer version error message. So, I think we're onto something. Not sure why LV 8.0 modified these vis rather than using its own copies. Also not sure why LV 7.1.1 didn't reinstall its own versions of these vis when I uninstalled it completely and reinstalled it. Finally, I'm not sure how I can repair the damage. But I do have hopes (I'm terminally optimistic) that we're getting close to the answer... Any suggestions you can make will be much appreciated :worship: I've cross posted this message with NI support (Jennifer, Support Reference number #711286)-- I don't want send you guys off on duplicated effort, so might check with her if you want to try and coordinate the effort. But in any case, I promise I'll let both of you know when I get an answer Best Regards, Louis

Dear Alpha: Very unfortunte news about your daughter-- I think you know that the members of forum don't always agree with you (or with each other for that matter) on all topics. But I'm sure I can speak for all of us in saying that we hope your daughter has a speedy and complete recovery from the accident. Some of us will be praying, perhaps to a variety of Gods, or to various versions of the same God. Some of us will just be hoping-- but I'm sure all of us, each in our own ways, wish your daughter quick return to full health. Best Regards in this difficult time, Louis

Hi AMMSLLC: Well before this thread implodes, I would like to put in my two cents worth. A bit busy now, so I'll be briefer that I might otherwise be on the subject (sighs of relief all over the internet. ) I've been using LabView since version 2.something-- back in the Mac-only days. First as an employee in the test department of a wind turbine manufacturer and for the past 10 years I've been a freelance consultant. I don't work exclusively in LabView, but it does end up coming in handy for as a tool for much of the work I do. I did go for the CLD status when it first became available-- for much the same reason you are considering it, and recently I took the exam to renew my status. (Umm-- yeah that's a little annoying-- you'd think that one shouldn't have to renew the CLD more often than one renews one's driver's license-- but that's another topic.) So with that background a couple of points to make: Despite my years of experience, I thought that I would have a tough time challenging the CLD exam without taking any advanced courses, so I sprang the $$$, not just for the exam, but also for some of the more advanced courses. While I was sitting in the advanced course learning about how to use OPC servers, I was thinking to myself, "Boy, this a neat feature-- but for someone else-- I'm never going to use it. But since its one of the possible things on the exam, I might as well pay enough attention to get any questions that might come up on the exam right." My very next gig-- at a time when I was far less busy than I like to be-- was a client who wanted a simple LV program to plot some data from a PLC which was publishing the data to -- you geussed it-- an OPC server. "Sure, I've done that before." Got the gig. I've also found practical uses for several other features that-- to be honest-- I learned soley for the purpose of passing the CLD exam. So my first point is this: The big cost in my mind-- even with 15 years LV experience-- was not the time and money to take the exam, but the time and money to prepare for the exam--- and I think that cost and effort has paid off well in other ways unrelated to the exam. Second point, as to the value of CLD itself as a marketing tool for consultants? Valuable- but perhaps not the most valuable thing to do unless you are strictly selling yourself as a programmer. It has brought me several little gigs, word of mouth through my local NI reps, who prorbably wouldn't have felt comfortable recommending me without the CLD. But truth is, at the rates I charge, most of my work doesn't come to me simply as a LabView programmer, but from folks who I've been working with for decades, and who know what I can do in my other areas of specialty. For these folks, LabView is a tool to help me work in those areas, not an end unto itself-- and they really could care less if I'm CLD or whatever. I think it is definitely worthwhile for young folks entering into the profession who need a little extra to go with their other training and get themselves in the door. Even as an old-timer, it helps to open some doors. But if you are enough of an old-timer to have learned LV from Gary's first book, spending the time and effort to network with existing clients should be the first line of attack for marketing yourself. Just my personal ramble on the topic. Might close by quoting my father "You can't argue with City Hall." NI is the City Hall of the LV world-- If that's your line of work, might as well go for the certification-- unless you are so busy with existing clients that doing so takes time away from billable hours... :thumbup: Best Regards, Louis

Hi Jim: Thanks, that sounded like a really good suggestion to me, and I tried it. Unfortunately: Ah well, not sure where to go next, do you think there's any point in getting rid of my present copy of open G stuff and trying again? (I tried doing a mass compile on the directory containing OpenG MSI Installer Builder.vi, I got a while big log file of "bad.vi" messages and then no better success when I tried running the builder again. For some reason, can't seem to open the builder.vi for edits, nor is it obvious to me where the offending sub-vi resides.) At any rate, much thanks for your help so far & open to any other suggestions. Best Regards, Louis

Hi Folks: Here's one that is really getting me a little scared, any suggestions would be much appreciated: I went back to version 7.1.1 'cause of some problems with 8.0.1 Built my application as an .exe, worked fine for me, sent to my client worked fine on his machine which already had run time engine installed from another project. Worked fine for him too. But he needs to be able to install it on new machines in the normal sort of way, so I tried to build an installer using the 7.1.1 app. builder, and problems began... Got the following error message when I tried the build: So, per NI support's suggestion, I tried building a really simple vi from scratch in 7.1.1: While loop with a stop button, a 1000 ms wait, and an indicator hooked to index-- This also failed to build an installer with the same message. Then I tried to re-install just the app builder per NI support's suggestion-- same problem. Then I uninstalled LV 7.1.1 completely, rebooted, reinstalled LV 7.1.1 completely, rebooted, tried again: Same problem... Has anyone seen anything like this before? Any Ideas? A little beyond frustrated, to just plain scared any suggestions will be much appreciated. Best Regards, Louis

For anyone with a similar problem who can't, for some reason, go back to 7.1: Jennifer at NI reports that some users have worked around similar problems by closing the front panel window under programatic control before calling the Exit LabView function. Haven't needed to test this myself-- but might be useful for others. Best Regards, Louis

--Good suggestion, Thanks! That was going to be the second thing I tried, If the first thing I tried hadn't worked. I reverted to version 7.1 and the problem went away. LabView 8.0 / 8.0.1 has some really neat features, unfortunately it is buggy enough that the most useful feature is: File>Save for Previous Version :thumbup: Again, thanks for the suggestion & Best Regards, Louis

:thumbup: Aha! now we're getting somewhere! If you really want to learn LabView, or for that matter if you already know it and want to do something useful, get rid of the express palette. Tool Menu>Options...(way down at the bottom)>Pulldown choice "Control/Functions Palette"> Select Advanced view. Then, when you use the functions palette, Time & Dialog>Wait ms (wristwatch looking thing, second item on the subpallete.) In general, the Express Vi's are useful for three purposes (1)doing very simple routine things, (2) as convenient example vi's that you can pick apart and modify if you already know LabView, but want to try doing something different from what you've done before, and (3)(perhaps most important) As a marketing tool for NI so they can claim you don't have to be a programmer to use LabView-- Very true, but in that case, don't try and do anything anywhere near as unusual as using a serial port for a PWM output. Best Regards, Good Luck, and keep us posted on your progress! :thumbup: Louis

Hi Folks: Ah well, I sort of hoped my troubles would be over when I upgraded to 8.0.1. :thumbdown: Kind of foolish of me, huh? I have built an executable file, seems to run fine when it is not maximized. However, if I maximize the display, and then exit, I get the following message as the application closes: Kind of makes my application look shoddy, which isn't a good thing, since the client will be using it to demo an expensive new instrument to potential buyers. Client is already a little cranky about the clutter that LV8 installers put on his laptop, can geuss how he'll feel about this. Might be time for me to go back to C programming, but would be happy to hear of any suggestions for how to fix. Best Regards, Louis Edit: Jennifer @ NI reports this is a known problem, also sometimes occurs when the user exits application with the Close Window X button. Only know to occur for applications which include certain kinds of things, but not yet sure what in my application triggers the problem. LM

Many thanks to Jim for an excellent tool :worship: Just under two hours to do the LabView directory on my Dell Precision M60 with lots of RAM but a very cluttered up disk. Started the mass compile, got on the phone with United Airlines to cancel a flight, and by the time I was through with United the mass compile was done :!: I just ran the NI built-in mass compost on a very simple application of about 30 vi's. Took couple of minutes. Hate to think how long that tool would have taken to do the full LV directory. Again, Thanks Jim (& PJM for the improvements) :beer: for both of you if we ever meet in person. Louis

Hi Kriss2fer: Welcome to the forum. I hope we can help. It sounds from your question as if you are a student working on a homework assignment. (Forgive me if I misunderstand. ) Usually, for that kind of question we only give general clues , or perhaps more detailed help if you've worked the problem enough yourself to have a very specific question about something. That said, its up to us individual members to give what answers we feel are appropriate. Since you've asked politely, and since you profess a desire to learn about LabView yourself, here are some clues. There are two commands that might be helpful for making a PWM output through the serial port: The Wait (ms) command will allow your program to wait a specified number of milliseconds. During this time, the output of the serial port will be inactive (higher voltage). The VISA Serial Break.vi will send a break message of a specified number of milliseconds (but no more than 500). During this time, the port output will be active (lower voltage). By setting these items into a sequence to force one to follow the other, and by putting the sequence within a loop, with a little simple math to adjust the relative number of milliseconds in each state, you should be able to make a crude, but for some purposes useful and efffective, PWM output on the serial port. Configure and select serial port before the loop, release port after loop exits. Be sure to wire the error cluster to all the vi's that have them-- this helps a lot in debugging. A good preliminary step would be to hook up a scope to the output of the serial port, and make sure you can see the output change as you send out messages-- You might want to test that using Hyperterm, a LabView serial output example, or some other simple serial port communications program, just to be sure you have the hardware hooked up right, so you can then focus on your programming problem knowing you have the tools you need to test your work. Hope these clues get you started. Best Regards, Louis

Hi Folks: I'm using a couple of Copley Controls stepnet (stepper motor) controllers in a serial-only mode. If I run the Copley CME 2 software first, I can then control the system with my LabView program until I send a bad command and get the controllers into a confused state. So far I can't control the steppers on my own, starting from a cold boot of controllers. I've got calls in to tech support, but meanwhile I figured it was worth checking if any of my esteemed colleages in LAVA have experience with this hardware that they can share. :beer: to anyone who can get me started on the right path. Best Regards, Louis

Hi Irene: I've been consulting for a bit over ten years now. The answers I always give: The best thing about being an independent consultant is that you don't have to put up with the nonsense from the accounting department and the MIS department. The worst thing about being an independent consultant is that you have to do your own books and fix your own computer. Often times I work at home, when I do, a bad commute is if I trip over the cat on the way from the kitchen to my office and spill coffee on my bedroom slippers. But, more seriously: Sometimes I'm sitting on my thumbs waiting & looking for work, sometimes (like now) I'm booked at 150% for the foreseeable future for long-standing clients I don't want to dissappoint. Managing the uneven fluctuation in workload (and income) can be a bit of an annoyance. Even given the low committment companies give to regular employees these days, they try to hold onto employees with steady work and steadier paychecks, which is nice. On the other hand, if I want to take a day off because the weather is too nice to spend inside, or to attend to family matters, its entirely up to me-- worst comes to worst I can make up a Wednesday on a future-- or yes, Alpha (given a little planning) past Saturday. I think that consulting is best if you have deep technical experience in a conventional work environment before you begin. I was a grunt engineer for a company for 17 years-- very experienced in test engineering, instrumentation programming and design, and wind turbine design before I started consulting. As a matter of fact, I was asked to do my first job based on a friend's need for someone with my particular experience, and that is what prompted me to set up the consultancy. I think the interactions and relationships you have with co-workers, especially more experienced ones, is very valuable when you start out-- To summarize, I think consulting is better for older folks than young'uns. Its really fun to hop into a project where I can help, learn a little about something entirely new to me, add to the project with my specific expertise, and then count on the client's own staff to finish up the routine work. Downside is that often times you pour your full attention into something for a few weeks, struggle with it like crazy, and then never end up hearing the details of how the overall project worked out. There's issues related to Taxes, Liability, Liability insurance, Health Insurance, retirement savings, etc. Even if you were writing from the U.S.A.-- and particularly since you are in Canada-- I can't say anything about that but to seek good professional advice and follow it carefully. The USA & other parts of the World too, I think, are full of folks who did really well as consultants, or independent mechanics, or whatever, but ended up going bankrupt because of Tax, Liabiliy, or Health issues, or reached retirement with a comfortable present & past lifesytle but no particular savings for the future. Lacking any reliable control over the arrow of time, best to get some of your money positioned nicely in the future-- just in case you get there with no reliable way to go back to the past. :thumbup: Hope my rambling thoughts have been of a little help. Best Regards, Louis

Hi Crelf: Thanks for the link, :worship: Exactly what I was talking about. ...Of course, I couldn't find DNSLookupEnabled on the site, so perhaps we have to help Brian with some updates. Best Regards, Louis

Hi All: I'm beginning to notice a pattern: There are lots of different classes of problems that can be fixed by setting something equal to something in the .ini file. Seems like it would be useful if there was a consolidated reference of all the ini file keys and what they are good for. I didn't seem to find it searching LV8 help. Am I missing something, or is this a worthwhile project? Best Regards, Louis

Hi Joel: I did something for a client a while ago where we were reading a data stream coming in from an Nicolet telemetry system, converting it from the telemetry stream using a Nicolet telemetry demodulator card, scaling the data to engineering units and streaming that data to disk. I recall that we were running at about thirty channels and five hundred hz or so. Is that the kind of thing you are interested in? If so, let me know and I'll try and get in touch with my client and see what happened on the project. (At the time I was involved, the answer to your question was definitely (b) : "ugly" . There were problems with the beta .DLL provided by others, so the only way to make it work was to Launch LV, wait for it to crash, Launch LV again, and it would work from then until the next time the computer needed to be re-booted. I'm sure they've progressed from there since them, this was a few years back.) Best regards, Lousi

Hi Basbiker: Welcome to the forum. I'm not totally sure I understand your question-- and perhaps others don't either, which might explain the lack of any response. Clarify a couple of things to help us to help you: 1. I assume you mean A/D (input), not D/A (output)? 2. Not sure what you mean by synchronizing with the ASCII file--- If the data is already in the ASCII file when your program goes to read it, how did it get there on a real-time basis? Doing real-time synchronization with anything that goes through the Windows OS (file read, read serial port, etc.) is generally difficult to impossible if your idea of real time is 100 Hz. Even at 10 Hz, "synchronization" in the Windows environment is unreliable and approximate at best. But if you try to clarify exactly what you're doing, perhaps there is a way, and if there is, someone here can help. (Might even be easy, if I totally misunderstand what you are asking .) Best Regards, Louis

Ah well, I guess a lot of us have been sucker punched At least I hope we have :question: Best, Louis

Hello All: Well this seems like pretty cruddy news to me too. :ninja: I'm very reluctant to spew at Michael-- He's put a huge amount of effort into managing the site, and I know it is really difficult to manage any group effort where the group is composed primarily of volunteers. He deserves much credit for that effort. On the other hand, it all seems quite sudden, and lacking detail on the motivations for both buyer and seller. As to why Michael was willing to sell the site, we have to assume that either NI had a big stick or a big carrot, or perhaps both. Either possibility seems rather unsavory. My nature is to give individuals the benefit of the doubt, and to not give corporations the same benefit, so I'm going to assume it was a big stick. It may be possible that the site simply became too much for Micheal to manage with the resources available, if that was the case I'd expect that efforts to sell premium memberships or solicit other forms of support would have been more intense. Given that, I suspect he was given an offer he couldn't refuse. We have a few clues as to why NI wanted to buy the site from what will be removed from it. My thoughts on that would make for a rather long post, and I've gone on for a bit already, so perhaps I'll hold my peace on that topic for now. Suffice to say, I don't think scripting or xnodes were the main issues. Others seem to be carrying the ball on the topic as to whether the site, composed of posts we all contributed, is Michael's to sell. Since I can't recall what the terms of membership are (I did read them when I signed up) I'll hold my peace on that too, at least for now. Finally, let's be optimistic that LAVA will remain a useful forum. Best Regards to all, Louis ljmanfredi@comcast.net

Hi I2dx: Don't assume that silence means we're not interested in your project duplicator tool... When I saw your first post about it, it sounded really neat to me. I (and I'm sure others) just haven't had a chance to try it yet, and it didn't seem right to give feedback without really trying it first. But it does seem like a very useful idea to me, and once I get a chance to play with it I'll be sure to send along comments and a proper thank-you. :beer: Meanwhile, don't be discouraged. Some of us have our hands full now trying to deal with LV8 without totally alienating all our clients.... Best Regards, Louis

-- Also on a nifty little crib sheet that comes packed in the box with the CD. Regards, Louis