Val Brown

QUOTE(Michael_Aivaliotis @ Apr 30 2007, 06:56 PM) Actually I'm NOT describing the complete application -- just the UI for the complete application. Now perhaps that's part of my problem -- I'm (still) separating UI from the process(es) that the UI controls. So, from that perspective, I see the possibility of an array of just such UIs (perhaps implemented as an XControl) with the user being able to select a "look and feel" by selecting amongst that array. This aspect of the question relates to another thread I started about "skinnable" interfaces. Could an array of XControls be used to "skin" different interfaces? Seems to be that, theoretically at least, that could/should be possible. And, yes, I have used property nodes to customize a UI -- MULTIPLE property nodes to dynamically customize a very, very complex UI. My understanding, and I may be incorrect, is that an XControl might be able to handle the messaging aspect of just such a UI. Then it would be a reusable component for interfacing to CD-ROMs, or DVD players or....could even be used as a front end to an array of instruments (if that metaphor made sense to the relevant users) with the message that "Fast Foward" button has been pressed being, perhaps mapped to "Use Next Available Instrument" or whatever. I'll be very interested in your presentation but may not be at NI Week. Hopefully it will (ultimately) be made available via LAVA. QUOTE(crelf @ Apr 30 2007, 06:58 PM) Here's some buttons you might be interested in... http://forums.lavag.org/index.php?act=attach&type=post&id=5674 Thanks! These are useable in a distro?

QUOTE(Michael_Aivaliotis @ Apr 30 2007, 06:26 PM) Yes, I agree -- and here's where I see the lack of value in using an XControl. Now I'm NOT asking for all of the following functionality to be included in a posted example but I am pointing out that -- at least as far as I'm concerned -- there are shortcomings to using XControls in real world, deployed code. I HOPE the shortcomings that I see relate more to my own lack of familiarity with XControls but.... So if I talk about my own project -- as an example -- my code currently has: Record, Play, Stop, Eject/Load, Fast Forward, Fast Rewind, GoToBeginning, GoToEnd, Nudge buttons (left and right to advance/reverse one "step" in the file), Progress Bar of file being played (with drageable indicator of current position that, when dragged, sets current position to its position), Elapsed Time, Remaining Time. Now to me it's easier to architect all of that NOT in an XControl but in the "older" architectures of QMH or ESM using typedefs, etc.

QUOTE(Aristos Queue @ Apr 29 2007, 06:03 PM) Yes, "newly discovered" not JUST discovered for the first time. But, unlike two of the other comments posted in this thread, I think this is a fundamental issue that both reveals the power of OOP but also points out how it can become an exercise in OOPs! Language is context bound, not hierarchical. It is community-based as well as in it is determined by and determinative of (over time) its own use within a community of users. There is a "within-timeness" to it, as the Existential-Phenomenological thinkers would put it and that "within-timeness" is not quite synonomous with what we do when "versioning" code. So to put all of this briefly, the point IMO is that the Requirements "stage" and process is the place in which the "language of use" is first developed (and ongoing refined) by those will use the deployed system of code as well as those who will code it. Actually developing a useable OOP architecture means -- among other things -- that the "lived complexity" of the tasks imagined by the users, was able to be reduced to a functional hierarchy -- even when it actually involves a much more complex structure. It is this later part that makes the overall architecting and coding process SO interesting, because there's lots of "slip and slide" in mapping the lived complexity of/for the users into the hierarchical constructing favored by OPP so as to maximize reusability, simplicity of construction and straightforward debugging, etc. And, yes, I have a background in philosophy so it's easy for me to "slip into" that world.

QUOTE(crelf @ Apr 30 2007, 05:43 PM) Yes, that's what I'm asking for as well so I do hope that someone will submit an example they have developed.

QUOTE(tcplomp @ Apr 30 2007, 06:17 AM) "CD drive" means CD-ROM so I would like to see an example of an XControl that would involve all of the "transport" controls of a typical CD-ROM control program - something like a media player's Stop, Play, Pause, etc...

A recent thread has raised the issue of example code illustrating the use of new features of LV8x, in particular the topic of XControls was mentioned. In that vein -- and FWIW -- I have yet to see a complete example of an XControl that implements, for instance, the functionality of a CD drive transport control panel. I mention this example because: 1. Such an instance would be a generally useful example. 2. The idea of such an instance has been mentioned in several other venues. 3. I haven't (yet) seen one -- and perhaps I've missed it so apologies in advance if one already exists and is available. 4. It SEEMS LIKE it should be a "really good thing" to use an XControl for this. 5. But, despite #4, I find myself returning to using "older controls" in a Queued Messaged Handler or Event State Machine architecture. Now perhaps it's just that I'm used to "old school" LV code, perhaps I'm just not enough "up to speed" on XControl features to get it to work well. But regardless of any of that, I still think it might be a good example -- if someone else has one. And, in any event, this is my contribution (albeit very, very small) to trying to keep a positive focus here. I've found LAVA to be very valuable and am glad that it's here. I hope to be able to be of help to others as well.

QUOTE(crelf @ Apr 22 2007, 10:00 AM) Deliverance.

QUOTE(John Rouse @ Apr 20 2007, 10:51 AM) I agree, esp in the context of LV which is such a VISUAL experience. I was always struck by how NON-VISUAL the experience was with Visual Studio -- it really was just a hyperlinked Text Editor with supporting utilities. Now that was helpful in many ways but it really wasn't -- IMO -- a truly VISUAL interface/experience. The more visual the process, the easier and more seamless it becomes for me -- and that's esp true in re: to "classes" as that's a term/word that just never "fit" well for me with what it was supposed to be representing.

QUOTE(Jim Kring @ Apr 13 2007, 11:37 AM) Jim is right on target about this. SW is definitely transforming into a service and leaving behind almost all of the "trappings" of its having been seen as a product. And there really isn't any way around this -- it's not just a MS "evil empire" disease being spread maliciously, this is the way it is (and actually has been IMO) in the unix, Mac and other OSs. Why do you think we have continuous updating occuring across ALL platforms? Contrast what happens in SW with something like your car. SW undergoes a major update and you download it over the net, perhaps with or without a charge depending on how "major" it is. Let's say through, that the Fuel Injection system on your car is "updated" ("improved") -- you definitely pay for that product as well as for the installation. The idea that, since you bought the car you ought to just "get" the update, is a really interesting one, esp when what we are considering to be the "product" is actually a collection of services (read "properties" and "methods") that allow us to perform services on various HW platforms. It really is about transitioning the understanding of what software IS...

QUOTE(lavezza @ Apr 12 2007, 09:08 PM) OK. Thanks for the info. I've gone ahead and run simulation.msi.

QUOTE(JohnRH @ Apr 12 2007, 02:47 PM) I agree but I've ONLY been doing this since version 5. ;-)

QUOTE(lavezza @ Apr 12 2007, 05:54 PM) I found that, not only did I NOT need to run simulator.msi, when I tried to run it, I got an error. Do you have a valid URL from which I can download it? I'm currently traveling and so don't have my installation CDs with me and want to make certain -- if possible -- that my installation is up to date.

QUOTE(SciWare @ Apr 12 2007, 05:01 PM) It's not "...just for a bug fix" -- as you've said, you're also getting the next major update, viz to 8.5.

QUOTE(Pablo Bleyer @ Apr 12 2007, 01:35 PM) I haven't seen this behavior and I've done some very, very large builds.

I've had no problems at all, including no problems with building applications, including older, legacy projects.

QUOTE(Louis Manfredi @ Apr 10 2007, 03:33 PM) The CW3DGRPH.OCX control needs to be updated to the latest version. I don't have the reference for this on the NI site but I'm sure a quick browse will retrieve it for you. By default that component is copied to c:\windows\system32 and then registered.

QUOTE(Tomi Maila @ Apr 10 2007, 12:07 PM) OK, anyone got a download source for simulation.msi? I don't have my original LV install CDs with me while traveling.

QUOTE(i2dx @ Apr 10 2007, 11:03 AM) If we are completely uptodate with 8.20 -- including all toolkits -- and then download the labview_821.exe file and double-click on it, the update will be correct? I'm on SSP but am traveling and so, if I can do this while on the road, it would be great.

QUOTE(Dirk J. @ Mar 30 2007, 02:02 AM) I use LV2 globals a lot -- both with for loops and while loops -- depending on the rest of the VI involved. I haven't thought about actually testing both structures, my assumption was that they were equivalent c/c++ code "underneath" so it's interesting to see the benchmarking. But it is because I use them a lot that I have concerns about the feedback node approach -- it seems like a lot of extra wiring to do, esp if you have a number of such variables within a single VI. On the other hand, one could pass around a cluster (of the separate variables) but then there's the overhead of the unbundle/bundle operations as those values are read and modified during run-time.

QUOTE(Darren @ Apr 2 2007, 09:12 PM) Can you post some example code to illustrate this? That would be a really great help for those trying to follow what you're describing.

QUOTE(i2dx @ Jan 11 2006, 04:57 AM) Is this ADO_Tool.LV80.zip still the latest version? I'm using LV8.2.

QUOTE(Jim Kring @ Mar 10 2007, 10:57 AM) Yes, well that's partly why I was asking, esp since another post indicated that -- except for LVOOP "intensive" operations -- v8.2.1 already seems pretty robust. I would guess that means pretty robust in XP but ??? in Vista...

QUOTE(jshoust @ Mar 10 2007, 08:19 AM) Is there an ETA for 8.2.1? Also I'm assuming that it "supports" Vista...

QUOTE(Donald @ Oct 5 2006, 02:50 AM) FWIW, I prefer Funtional Global partly because it's sort of the only Global that is really "functional" instead of dysfunctional... LV2 is historically correct but not very helpful and the others, well, I guess I just don't like them, again FWIW.

QUOTE(yen @ Mar 4 2007, 01:07 PM) That was the curious thing for me. I had the VI class, not the Application class. But, who knows what I actually did. Afterall there are some who would say I have no class. ;-)