iPad vs Kindle vs Rock

[crelf]

From here.

[Daklu]

Funny.

Personally I don't see the appeal of electronic readers. I guess I'm a Luddite for saying so, but I still prefer paper to ebooks for just about everything.

[crelf]

Personally I don't see the appeal of electronic readers. I guess I'm a Luddite for saying so, but I still prefer paper to ebooks for just about everything.

I haven't seen a lot of ebooks, but I was amazed by both the Kindle and the Panasonic readers - the screens are amazing.

[Cat]

I haven't seen a lot of ebooks, but I was amazed by both the Kindle and the Panasonic readers - the screens are amazing.

As an avid reader, I wasn't very keen on the concept of an eReader. After much resistance (and borrowing eReaders from friends), I finally drank the kool-aid... My Kindle is now an essential part of my electronic gear. Especially when I'm travelling a lot.

The worst part about the Kindle?? It's having to continually reminding myself that, yes, I am actually paying for all those books, even if I don't have to go to a store or whip out my credit card to buy them.

[Phillip Brooks]

I haven't seen a lot of ebooks, but I was amazed by both the Kindle and the Panasonic readers - the screens are amazing.

Technical:

I didn't spend a lot of time with them, but I looked at the Sony and nook readers just before Christmas. The nook seemed like the nicer unit to me, but I didn't get to hold it; there was a big crowd gathered around a sales person demonstrating the features.

The sample Sony unit bolted to the kiosk was awful! The screen flickered when changing pages and the response time to menu selections was very slow.

Social:

To me, these devices are a solution looking for a problem. The only 'problem' they seem to solve is that of the distribution of wealth. According to reports, the publishers give up 30% of the price, but have no printing, inventory or distribution overhead; just marketing and editing prior to release. The publishers will make more because they certainly paid more than 30% in production costs. Lets say for the sake of argument that it is 50% (probably low).

The 50% that used to be distributed amongst loggers, paper mills, printers, trucking companies and book stores provided income that was in turn used to pay mortgages; to buy cars, groceries and books . A free economy is like a well architected LabVIEW application; it depends upon flow.

The 30% redirected to the new business model seemingly goes to support the infrastructure to distribute the books. This is false because as a user you must pay subscription fees for access (cellular, broadband, etc...).

The human part of this support is not being done by the displaced business model; it is being performed by 'the lowest bidder'. The 20% savings by the publishing house is still highly contested between the publishers and the authors and will likely be split between them in the end.

[Daklu]

I haven't seen a lot of ebooks, but I was amazed by both the Kindle and the Panasonic readers - the screens are amazing.

Let me clarify...

From a technology standpoint I agree they are very cool and it's nice to finally get a viable form of electronic ink that doesn't cause eye strain. From a consumer standpoint I'm not interested in the slightest. I have always found electronic documents less usable than hard copies--especially if it's a document I'm likely to reference a lot. I think the non-textual cues (smudges, a slightly torn page, knowing where I am in the book simply by holding it, etc) from the book help me organize all the information and provide shortcuts for my brain when I'm rereading it. Electronic documents remove those cues.

More than that, I wouldn't buy a microwave that only cooks Kraft foods. I'm not inclined to buy ebooks that require a $200+ electronic device in order to use. (I don't buy online music that I can't burn to cd either.)

Cat, do you use it primarily for leisure reading or work-related documents?

[Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden]

AS a book collector, the tables and readers are just an expensive toy that will go the way of the phonograph (that at least I could still listen to as long as the turn-table was turning and I had a sewing needle). A libray should smell like a library and not a new laptop. My 100+ year old books will still be readable when those gizmos go absolete.

THe physical interaction with a real book is part of my book experinece. I can jump to the page I am after based on the crumpled pages that occured when I fell asleep with it THAT time. I can keep my finger in multiple pages and flip back and forth in an instant. Reading a multi-volume series leaves you with no sense of accomplishment since You can't see volume four missing from the 6 volume series.

Just last night I enjoyed watching Olivia (my grand daughter) sitting in a pile of books should pulled off the shelf as she flipped through the pages. Can't do that in electronic form.

Ben

[Cat]

Wow. I'm finding myself in the ironic position of feeling like I have to defend a new technology to a bunch of engineers and scientists.

I didn't spend a lot of time with them, but I looked at the Sony and nook readers just before Christmas. The nook seemed like the nicer unit to me, but I didn't get to hold it; there was a big crowd gathered around a sales person demonstrating the features.

I held off on my purchase until I could get a Nook in my hands. It was okay, but more of a concept thing. The little color interface box didn't seem quite ready for prime time, yet, and the software for the whole thing was definitely in Rev 0 mode.

To me, these devices are a solution looking for a problem. The only 'problem' they seem to solve is that of the distribution of wealth.

The problem they solve for me is not having to lug multiple books around when I'm travelling. Or pay exorbitant prices at the airport book store. Also, there is a lot to be said for the instant gratification of finishing one book of a trilogy, and being able to purchase the next one without even having to move one's butt off the couch. Saves on gas $$ and puts less wear and tear on my death-trap of a Toyota.

According to reports, the publishers give up 30% of the price, but have no printing, inventory or distribution overhead; just marketing and editing prior to release. The publishers will make more because they certainly paid more than 30% in production costs. Lets say for the sake of argument that it is 50% (probably low).

Probably high. You need to take 30-50% off the top of the retail price for what the bookstore gets to sell the book.

The 50% that used to be distributed amongst loggers, paper mills, printers, trucking companies and book stores provided income that was in turn used to pay mortgages; to buy cars, groceries and books . A free economy is like a well architected LabVIEW application; it depends upon flow.

Do you object to industries using robots instead of assembly line workers??

The 30% redirected to the new business model seemingly goes to support the infrastructure to distribute the books. This is false because as a user you must pay subscription fees for access (cellular, broadband, etc...).

Nope, you only pay for the eReader. No subscription fees.

On to the next apologia...

From a technology standpoint I agree they are very cool and it's nice to finally get a viable form of electronic ink that doesn't cause eye strain.

I had a days worth of nirvana a couple weeks ago. My daughter and SO were both gone and I did nothing but read all day long. Went thru 4 books over the course of about 15 hours. Only got up off the couch to attend to personal needs and (of course) feed the cats. Someone asked me later how my eyes could stand that. I realized that there had been no eye strain at all for the whole time. Something that is a definite problem for me after 4 or 5 hours of Real Book reading.

I'm not inclined to buy ebooks that require a $200+ electronic device in order to use. (I don't buy online music that I can't burn to cd either.)

I hear ya. I'm not saying that it's not a luxury item. However, reading is one of my greatest pleasures, and the Kindle makes it easier.

Cat, do you use it primarily for leisure reading or work-related documents?

All leisure. I've got the regular Kindle, not the big one that is better for text books.

[Phillip Brooks]

AS a book collector, the tables and readers are just an expensive toy that will go the way of the phonograph (that at least I could still listen to as long as the turn-table was turning and I had a sewing needle). A libray should smell like a library and not a new laptop. My 100+ year old books will still be readable when those gizmos go absolete.

THe physical interaction with a real book is part of my book experinece. I can jump to the page I am after based on the crumpled pages that occured when I fell asleep with it THAT time. I can keep my finger in multiple pages and flip back and forth in an instant. Reading a multi-volume series leaves you with no sense of accomplishment since You can't see volume four missing from the 6 volume series.

Just last night I enjoyed watching Olivia (my grand daughter) sitting in a pile of books should pulled off the shelf as she flipped through the pages. Can't do that in electronic form.

Ben

Exactly my thinking! Imagine tomorrow's JD Salinger (R.I.P.) being published only in electronic format. Years after the technology is disabled (EMP renders electronics useless/blank; big brother activates the 'revoke' function on your e-reader because the book questions current political thinking) and the story/concept/history is lost.

Talk about irony; Amazon deleted Orwell's "Animal Farm" and "1984" from Kindles after they were paid for by trusting customers.

Amazon Erases Orwell Books from Kindle

As I said, this is more about technology seeking money rather than improving the quality of our life.

Rant over. If you want to discuss it further, write me a letter.

I'm calling my mom now to make sure that our "Man walks on moon" issue of the Jamestown Post-Journal is still safely stored away...

[ASTDan]

I have seen an e-reader once. I had a friend who traveled a lot and the convenience of it made a lot of sense for her. I was impressed with the screen.

I like manuals in PDF form, however text books and fun books there is nothing like the real thing.

Kirk used an e-reader so I guess it is just a matter of time.... Didn't Spock give him a real book once:rolleyes:

Curling up by the fire on a cold winter night with a cup of hot coco and an e-book doesn't have a good ring to it...

[crelf]

I apologise in advance for this, but it's something I saw a couple of years ago, and we're all thinking it:

[Phillip Brooks]

I have seen an e-reader once. I had a friend who traveled a lot and the convenience of it made a lot of sense for her. I was impressed with the screen.

I like manuals in PDF form, however text books and fun books there is nothing like the real thing.

Kirk used an e-reader so I guess it is just a matter of time.... Didn't Spock give him a real book once:rolleyes:

Curling up by the fire on a cold winter night with a cup of hot coco and an e-book doesn't have a good ring to it...

Jean-Luc also preferred real books...

Picard's Syndrome

[crelf]

I think that if Kindle (or whatever eBook) had a try-before-you-buy program then they'd sell a while lot more. I agree with most ppl here - I'm more of a tactile person and I shied away from such devices, but when I actually got one and used it for a while I was amazed with just how good it was. Yes, I can't physically dog-ear pages, but I can do it vritually (tagging - actually, it's better than dog-earring, as you can tag a word in the page - no more I'm-so-tired-but-I-gotta-keep-reading-until-I-get-to-the-end-of-a-paragraph-so-I-know-where-to-pick-up-from). Besides, really popular titles like those shown below are available in both print and electronic format, so where can you go wrong?!?

btw: eBook readers don't just display eBooks - they can display pdf files, rtf files, and more...

Jean-Luc also preferred real books...

He also drank Earl Grey tea in the morning, without a slice of lemon - luddite!

[Cat]

AS a book collector, the tables and readers are just an expensive toy that will go the way of the phonograph

Hmm. While I don't think Real Books will ever go away, just like LPs haven't gone away, eReaders are the future. Kinda like the horseless carriage and that satellite communications magic became the future.

My 100+ year old books will still be readable when those gizmos go absolete.

The books that I really love won't last 100 years. I read them too often.

Besides which, I downloaded The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes the other day (for a whopping 99 cents). Do you really think Arthur Conan Doyle would care what format I was reading his words in? Or just be ecstatic that over 100 years later they were still being read?

And honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the Kindle becomes obsolete at some point. Part of the reason I was really torn about which variety of eReader to get was because of the whole Beta vs. VHS issue.

THe physical interaction with a real book is part of my book experinece. I can jump to the page I am after based on the crumpled pages that occured when I fell asleep with it THAT time. I can keep my finger in multiple pages and flip back and forth in an instant.

As crelf has noted, you can tag pages. And take notes that are stored on the Kindle. And, the Kindle automatically picks up at the last page read, even if you're reading multiple books at a time (something I could never handle).

Just last night I enjoyed watching Olivia (my grand daughter) sitting in a pile of books should pulled off the shelf as she flipped through the pages. Can't do that in electronic form.

And my daughter and I have been fighting over my Kindle since I made the mistake of downloading a couple books I thought she might like to it...

Obviously if you *collect* books (as well as read them), that's a different thing. Other than a handful of exceptions, I purchase books just to read them. Often over and over. I currently have over 1000 Real Books, and that's after purging about 300 of them when I moved last year (it was a very painful occasion, but if I'm not going to read it more than once, there's no point in keeping it around. There again -- I'm not a collector).

When I was going thru engineering school, I promised myself my big reward after I graduated was that I was going to start purchasing hard back versions of books by my favorite authors. After reading about 10 of them that way, I realized that hard backs are a pain. Too big, too heavy. Paperbacks were easier to read.

An eReader is even easier. More convenient. Which is the whole point, for me -- whatever makes it easiest to read.

I think that if Kindle (or whatever eBook) had a try-before-you-buy program then they'd sell a while lot more. I agree with most ppl here - I'm more of a tactile person and I shied away from such devices, but when I actually got one and used it for a while I was amazed with just how good it was.

That was exactly my experience. I ran out of books while on vay-cay last summer -- and we were out in the middle of nowhere. I borrowed my mom's Kindle (yup, no book stores for miles, but there was cell service) and was surprised that it wasn't nearly as "sterile" of an experience as I was expecting. I wasn't real keen on the contrast on the screen, tho. It was okay, but not great. But a few months ago, Kindle came out with an international version that also had better screen contrast. The rest is history...

[Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden]

Never intended to put in the defence postion. Just pointing out that it is not a direct replacement for a book of a rock, which reminds me... .

When I was in high school and getting beat up regualry for ... paying attention... I noticed one of my cheif tormentors* passing me coming the other way in the hall but had not noticed me. AS soon as he passed I dropped the 20 pounds of books I was carrying on the back of his head and proceeded to settle the score **. There are some things you can do with books (or rocks) you just would not concider doing with a reader.

Ben

* Currently serving a life sentence.

** THat is when my parents decided I would be better off in a private school.

[crelf]

...as he passed I dropped the 20 pounds of books I was carrying on the back of his head and proceeded to settle the score... There are some things you can do with books (or rocks) you just would not concider doing with a reader.

I can't argue with that

[Cat]

There are some things you can do with books (or rocks) you just would not concider doing with a reader.

LOL! That's very true.

I think my final statement would have to be -- don't knock it til you try it. Or until you're forced to try it for a few days. You might be surprised.

* Currently serving a life sentence.

Seriously???

[Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden]

Seriously???

Yes.

Ben

[ASTDan]

I am a big library fan. Free books!

Somebody was telling you you can get books from the library on your e-reader. Is that true?

Instead of plugging into the books available from Amazon could you plug into the Library of Congress for example, and check out books instead of buying them?

Edited January 29, 2010 by ASTDan

[Cat]

I am a big library fan. Free books!

My problem with the library is a basic belief that once a book is in my house, it's *mine*. So I avoid libraries. I have a copy of The Martian Chronicals I checked out in grade school...

Somebody was telling you you can get books from the library on your e-reader. Is that true?

Instead of plugging into the books available from Amazon could you plug into the Library of Congress for example, and check out books instead of buying them?

The Barnes & Noble Nook has some limited capability to connect to some libraries. As I said in one of my long, numerous posts, the Nook is a Really Good Idea that's not quite there yet.

You can get thousands of books for free for the Kindle from Amazon. Thousands more for 99 cents. There are other resources you can connect to for free books, like Project Gutenburg, that I haven't had a chance to explore yet.

So many books! So little time...

[crelf]

You can get thousands of books for free for the Kindle from Amazon. Thousands more for 99 cents. There are other resources you can connect to for free books, like Project Gutenburg...

An eBook reader is looking more and more like my wife's next birthday present - but don't tell her I said that!

[ASTDan]

My problem with the library is a basic belief that once a book is in my house, it's *mine*. So I avoid libraries. I have a copy of The Martian Chronicals I checked out in grade school...

Watch out for Mr. Bookman

[Cat]

I apologise in advance for this, but it's something I saw a couple of years ago, and we're all thinking it:

Oh, gawd! It's a really good thing I couldn't access that at work!

Watch out for Mr. Bookman

Urp!

I'd return it, if my elementary school hadn't been turned into a bank decades ago.

[crelf]

Oh, gawd! It's a really good thing I couldn't access that at work!

I know, I know, I'm sorry, but you can't say I didn't warn you!

[Cat]

I know, I know, I'm sorry, but you can't say I didn't warn you!

True!