My new rig (MacBook Pro)

[Jim Kring]

A sign that it's time to switch...

[crelf]

I bet he's running Windows

Apple now makes PCs that run Windows, just like Toshiba, Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc. It's not that he switched from PC to Mac, it's more the Apple switched from Mac to PC

[boone_93]

QUOTE (crelf @ Jul 2 2008, 10:07 PM)

I bet he's running Windows

Apple now makes PCs that run Windows, just like Toshiba, Dell, Lenovo, HP, etc. It's not that he switched from PC to Mac, it's more the Apple switched from Mac to PC

I agree, there making it sound like their market share is increasing when they are just making an expensive IBM clone. If Apple wants to enter the PC market, fine, but don't make it sound like everyone out there is switching to them.

[Justin Goeres]

QUOTE (boone_93 @ Jul 3 2008, 05:41 AM)

I agree, there making it sound like their market share is increasing

Depending on how you measure, it is increasing. But the real key is quality of software, profitability, and consumer mindshare, because market share is meaningless unless you understand exactly what the boundaries of the market are.

QUOTE

when they are just making an expensive IBM clone.

It's not an "IBM clone" when it runs OS X. And "expensive" is debatable and subjective. I don't know about you, but I buy the best tools for my job.

QUOTE

If Apple wants to enter the PC market, fine, but don't make it sound like everyone out there is switching to them.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. Apple has been in the "PC market" for over 20 years.

Unless by "PC market" you mean the low-margin, commodity computer hardware market where Dell/Lenovo/etc. live. That's not a market Apple has ever cared about. The failure of the press and the "market analysts" to understand that is something that continues to astound me.

[ChrisClark]

some "marketshare" numbers

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/02/mac-br...tinues-to-rise/

[Val Brown]

Yes, the MBP is not "just an expensive IBM clone". First of all, it's not a clone -- literally it's not. Secondly, it comes with Mac OSX and all of its features. Third, because of the Mac side of things, when using VMWare Fusion, Parallels or similar virtualization software you can literally switch transparently because the two OSs, simultaneously deriving benefits from each. For instance, I do all of my LV programming in XP via Fusion while I use the Mac OS under NAT to access the web, using Safari and Entourage (MS Office for Mac Outlook replacement) giving me the extra security/safety of the Mac OS on the web. Whenever I want, I can reboot into "native" XP using Boot Camp, if any specific hardware-related limitations occur during my programming work.

It really is an elegant solution, esp if you like the Mac interface and how the Mac (currently at least) works on the web.

But, then again, back in the "old days" I used a Mac Power Book and VPC to run both Mac and Windows LV to develop parallel interchangeable code. That was before LV really committed to the Windows platform -- for instance developing the SPT to run ONLY in Windows. It seemed a real shame to me to NOT maintain such cross-platform programming potential but, then again, NI isn't my company, and that's probably a very good thing!

I do hope that NI decides to fully implement the various toolkits within the Mac OS. I'd love to deploy a native Mac version of what I've developed but can't until the SPT (and some others) are implemented in Mac OS.

[boone_93]

I knew that my last post would draw you out Justin

Now let me precursor this the fact that I am not a MAC hater, just considered to be a realist and a little bit of a Devil's advocate because there are some people at my company that would have MACs take over my very thoughts if I let them, so I have to keep my guard up

QUOTE (Justin Goeres @ Jul 3 2008, 08:12 AM)

http://lavag.org/old_files/monthly_07_2008/post-2992-1215090193.jpg' target="_blank">

Depending on how you measure, it is increasing. But the real key is quality of software, profitability, and consumer mindshare, because market share is meaningless unless you understand exactly what the boundaries of the market are.

I'm guessing that they are definitely getting a surge of people that couldn't use a MAC but wanted to for business before because they couldn't run Windows before, there are some people at my company that are doing the same thing, using the MAC to run Windows for just the apps they have too.

QUOTE

It's not an "IBM clone" when it runs OS X. And "expensive" is debatable and subjective. I don't know about you, but I buy the best tools for my job.

I don't think there any question that it's an expensive machine. I have a high end HP laptop and MBP definitely isn't a bargain compared to it. Although I will concede that it isn't just an IBM clone, that was a little inflammatory on my part As far as the best machine for my job, I have a chip on my shoulder about the MBP because my IT dept tried to force one on me with just XP installed because that's what I need, and I complained because MBP isn't an equal machine for a straight Windows user. Now I admit if you want to do both then it's cool, but I have no use for OS X.

QUOTE

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by that. Apple has been in the "PC market" for over 20 years.

My mistake, I meant to say the Windows PC market.

QUOTE

Unless by "PC market" you mean the low-margin, commodity computer hardware market where Dell/Lenovo/etc. live. That's not a market Apple has

ever

cared about. The failure of the press and the "market analysts" to understand that is something that continues to astound me.

If you're comparing to Dell and Lenovo, don't they compare to a MacBook or a Mac Mini for price points?

In the end for this doesn't Windows still win. Everyone that purchases one of these to run both Mac and Win OS still gets to sent a check to Microsoft for its OS and MSOffice.

[Jim Kring]

QUOTE (boone_93 @ Jul 3 2008, 12:36 PM)

In the end for this doesn't Windows still win. Everyone that purchases one of these to run both Mac and Win OS still gets to sent a check to Microsoft for its OS and MSOffice.

Microsoft does get paid, but they don't win. Switching to Mac is one more step towards completely breaking away from Windows and the tradition of corporate desktop software that's released every 4 years (if you're lucky) and adds only more system instability issues.

[LAVA 1.0 Content]

QUOTE (Jim Kring @ Jul 3 2008, 10:28 PM)

....desktop software that's released every 4 years (if you're lucky) and adds only more system instability issues.

Oh come on, you mean 98 is more stable than XP?

Ton

[crelf]

QUOTE (Justin Goeres @ Jul 3 2008, 08:12 AM)

Apple has been in the "PC market" for over 20 years.

I agree, but they don't want you to think that.

For example: "Hi! I'm a Mac" "...and I'm a PC"

[Val Brown]

QUOTE (Jim Kring @ Jul 3 2008, 01:28 PM)

Microsoft does get paid, but they don't win. Switching to Mac is one more step towards completely breaking away from Windows and the tradition of corporate desktop software that's released every 4 years (if you're lucky) and adds only more system instability issues.

MS doesn't necessarily get paid -- that depends on what programs you need to run and whether something like Wine or Crossover can support your app. But, in general, yes MS gets its "nickel" with every copy of XP/Vista that is installed and that's certainly the way most MBPs are set up these days to support Windows operations.

I don't see the MBP as expensive and FWIW you couldn't GIVE me an HP to use. I've had to contend with every "low ball" price pointing strategy in the field for the last 15 years in supporting neurofeedback software. Finally -- FINALLY! -- with the release of XP Pro (not even Home) we had MS enforce the AC97 standard and that was supposed to take effect in, guess what?, 1997. And THAT was supposed to mean the every copy of Windows 98 would run on hardware that would support the AudioComponents standard known as AC97. It took Vista -- ten years later -- for that standard to actually become THE standard for ALL Windows systems. And the reason for those delays were the complaints of Dell, HP, Compaq and all of the denizens of the deep discount "cheap" computer.

OK, end of rant and FWIW I really DO feel better.