single computer activation code

[Antoine Chalons]

Hi all,

LVVILIB LICKEY 2G is a One-Time-Activation with Grace period (in days) given for your LabVIEW program deployment. So says the website.

It looks quite interesting.. At my company we often make VB AI plugins for our customers and we've been looking for a way to ensure it works on no more than one computer.

As it's only 20 USD I might get it to try it out anyway but if anyone's got it and can give some feedback it'd be nice.

Cheers

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

QUOTE (Antoine Châlons @ May 8 2009, 05:44 AM)

Hi all,

http://lvvilib.com/lvvilib_lickey2g.html' rel='nofollow' target="_blank">LVVILIB LICKEY 2G is a One-Time-Activation with Grace period (in days) given for your LabVIEW program deployment. So says the website.

It looks quite interesting.. At my company we often make VB AI plugins for our customers and we've been looking for a way to ensure it works on no more than one computer.

As it's only 20 USD I might get it to try it out anyway but if anyone's got it and can give some feedback it'd be nice.

Cheers

I just had a short look at it. Seems it stores the information in hidden files in the system directory and there seems to be some encryption used. Since the functionality is VI based there is some possibility by a LabVIEW freak to actually replace the two or three main VIs provided by this tool and put inside the executable. Name Mangling at build time of your executable would be one possibility to complicate this to the point where it is unfeasible to work for anyone but the most determined hacker.

Is it a good idea? Well I'm not a fan of software activation at all.

Does it work? Most likely for almost all average users of your software.

Is it worth it? The cost of the tool is certainly not a problem. The cost for maintenance however will be not negligible. You will have to build it in your app, make sure to maintain the correct keys and provide a prompt and fast service to your customers to provide them with the keys to unlock your software. Don't underestimate this last one.

Rolf Kalbermatter

[Antoine Chalons]

QUOTE (rolfk @ May 8 2009, 02:44 PM)

I just had a short look at it. Seems it stores the information in hidden files in the system directory and there seems to be some encryption used. Since the functionality is VI based there is some possibility by a LabVIEW freak to actually replace the two or three main VIs provided by this tool and put inside the executable. Name Mangling at build time of your executable would be one possibility to complicate this to the point where it is unfeasible to work for anyone but the most determined hacker.

Is it a good idea? Well I'm not a fan of software activation at all.

Does it work? Most likely for almost all average users of your software.

Is it worth it? The cost of the tool is certainly not a problem. The cost for maintenance however will be not negligible. You will have to build it in your app, make sure to maintain the correct keys and provide a prompt and fast service to your customers to provide them with the keys to unlock your software. Don't underestimate this last one.

Rolf Kalbermatter

Thank Rolf for these comments. I'm really not a fan of software activation either, in the past we've had some big problems* with this so we want to go very carefully ; right now we're just evaluating possibilities (this was asked by our customer).

Thanks again for raising up the possible issues.

* its a good story and I think it deserves to be told :

A while back, a customer had about 10 systems with activated vision licences, those system were running in a factory 7 days a week. For some -bad- reasons the computers all had 2 network boards and were set to auto-upgrade windows.

So when a Windows upgrade came up, the computers got the upgrade, somehow the upgrade switched the 2 network boards and so without any notice the vision licence automatically went to evaluation mode. 30 days after that, on a saturday, all the systems couldn't work anymore..

It took us (well.. my colleague.. I was lucky enough to not be involved in this project) quite a bit of time to find out the what the problem was!

That's just an example of how made you can drive your customers with software activation.

[crelf]

QUOTE (Antoine Châlons @ May 8 2009, 09:08 AM)

That's just an example of how made you can drive your customers with software activation.

Are you sure there wasn't a nag warning screen that the operators just ignored for 30 days until it locked?

[Antoine Chalons]

QUOTE (crelf @ May 8 2009, 08:25 PM)

Are you sure there wasn't a nag warning screen that the operators just ignored for 30 days until it locked?

Honestly, I can't tell. The customer kept saying that nothing came up...

[Neville D]

QUOTE (crelf @ May 8 2009, 11:25 AM)

Are you sure there wasn't a nag warning screen that the operators just ignored for 30 days until it locked?

The nag only comes up when you start the application. If its started and runs continously without being stopped, then it won't come up again.

N.

[ShaunR]

QUOTE (crelf @ May 8 2009, 07:25 PM)

Are you sure there wasn't a nag warning screen that the operators just ignored for 30 days until it locked?

That's kind of irrelevant.

A customer will blame you (the supplier) not NI for stopping production by a fault in your software. Generally you will get a phone call and they will demand you come on-site to fix it. At best, it costs you (as in your company) 1 engineer on a field trip. But we also have a suppliers that we guarantee minimum down time and incur penalties for lost production. So far this year, we have had 2 occurrences similar to this, luckily not with a supplier we guarantee, but it still cost an engineer a day off each time from projects he should have been on (and car rental, etc).

We have been using Labview and Labwindows for donkeys years, But there have been murmurs recently from the upper echelons in our company, that Labview is "too risky" and although it may be better in the short term because of the short development cycle, in the long term it may cost too much especially as the sales guys have just gone and sold 2 more guaranteed down-time contracts. In the current climate we have loads of c++ programmers looking for projects and the "powers that be" are looking for excuses to utilize the spare resource. I'm fighting like hell at the moment to get the SSP paid this month. And this sort of thing isn't helping me fight my corner.

[crelf]

QUOTE (ShaunR @ May 8 2009, 06:50 PM)

That's kind of irrelevant.

Unimportant to you maybe, but certainly not irrelevant. You can't control everything that a computer does, or wants to do - you don't have in-depth knowledge of all it's parts. If the user ignored a "improper shutdown, hard disk has errors, run scandisk" message and your software faults due to that, is that your fault too? I'm not saying that you can't plan for these things, but you have to, well, plan for these things. If you know that you need to activate Windows in 30 days or it'll bomb out, then you activate Windows within 30 days so it's okay. You need to gain and apply that same level of product knowledge to all the components you apply to the system - including anything from NI or any other manufacturer. That said, if a user ignored an error for a month (whether that be from an activation issue or a hard fault) and then expected me to fix it immediately once it bombed out, I'd be having a stern talk to them.

[ShaunR]

QUOTE (crelf @ May 11 2009, 07:25 PM)

Unimportant to you maybe, but certainly not irrelevant. You can't control everything that a computer does, or wants to do - you don't have in-depth knowledge of all it's parts.

Actually. We can and we do. We specify the PC in detail. From the processor, motherboard, chassis, drives etc to RAID10, cooling and vibration/shock resistance. We also stress test the machines for 1 month before delivery. Whilst we can't prevent hardware failures, we can limit the impact on production with considered choice and preventative maintenance. These aren't laptop/desktop pc's loaded with word, excel and all the other crap. These are purpose built production machines, (designed to run 24/7 and come with a 10 year life expectancy and 5 year warrantee) which have only ours and national instruments software (apart from the OS and drivers). So if there is a software "fault" there is no-one else to blame. If the operator is capable of breaking it. Then we haven't designed it properly.

QUOTE (crelf @ May 11 2009, 07:25 PM)

If the user ignored a "improper shutdown, hard disk has errors, run scandisk" message and your software faults due to that, is that your fault too?

Yes. The operators function is solely to load/unload the machine with parts, start the machine in the morning and stop the machine at the end of the shift. No more is expected. If an error is detected in the software, it sms's us with the error and we contact the customer to ensure that preventative action can take place on the next shift changeover.

QUOTE (crelf @ May 11 2009, 07:25 PM)

I'm not saying that you can't plan for these things, but you have to, well, plan for these things. If you know that you need to activate Windows in 30 days or it'll bomb out, then you activate Windows within 30 days so it's okay. You need to gain and apply that same level of product knowledge to all the components you apply to the system - including anything from NI or any other manufacturer. That said, if a user ignored an error for a month (whether that be from an activation issue or a hard fault) and then expected me to fix it immediately once it bombed out, I'd be having a stern talk to them.

errrrm. I didn't think it was in question that the OP (or myself) hadn't originally activated Labview. He was talking about the fact he had activated it and after an update Labview required re-activation.

We have an OEM license for windows so activation isn't an issue (if we decide to use windows that is, we also use linux so activation would be irrelevant). Any (and I mean ANY with a capital E) errors must stop the machine and turn it into a paperweight, otherwise people can lose limbs. We have no issues with windows (it's remarkably stable, if you don't load it up with active X or usual rubbish you find on a desktop PC) and we have had only 2 windows failures in 4 years both due to malicious intent. Windows has never suddenly popped-up that it requires re-activation. Or refused to work because of licensing. However, as I pointed out, we have had 2 instances as of this year so far of Labview requiring re-activation.

[crelf]

Sorry - perhaps my specific examples clouded that I was trying to be generic in saying that you can't cover everything. It's a computer. You can try to cover as much as you can (and it looks like you're doing fine with things like hardware and Windows itself), but you can't cover everything. Not that any further discussion here will help, but I sure hope you addressed your issues directly with NI, right?

QUOTE (ShaunR @ May 11 2009, 04:20 PM)

Windows has never suddenly popped-up that it requires re-activation. Or refused to work because of licensing.

Again, I was trying to be generic - I didn't mean for you to get specifically hung up on the examples. Have you ever had Windows complain about *anything*?

QUOTE (ShaunR @ May 11 2009, 04:20 PM)

Any... errors must stop the machine and turn it into a paperweight, otherwise people can lose limbs. We have no issues with windows...

Well, your experience aside I'm not sure I'd have a purely Windows OS controlling anything that could lop of limbs. That said, I don't know your application or system, so I can't speak without ignorance on that.

[ShaunR]

QUOTE (crelf @ May 11 2009, 09:46 PM)

Well, your experience aside I'm not sure I'd have a purely Windows OS controlling anything that could lop of limbs. That said, I don't know your application or system, so I can't speak without ignorance on that.

Indeed....lol.

We don't rely on it, safety critical aspects are hardware enforced (like E-STOPS which will cut power and air at the supply), Like I said though. Windows is very robust as long as you don't have all the other crap that your IT dept would put on, disable all the unwanted services, don't use active X or .Net and only run your software.

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

QUOTE (ShaunR @ May 11 2009, 05:41 PM)

Indeed....lol.

We don't rely on it, safety critical aspects are hardware enforced (like E-STOPS which will cut power and air at the supply), Like I said though. Windows is very robust as long as you don't have all the other crap that your IT dept would put on, disable all the unwanted services, don't use active X or .Net and only run your software.

Which makes it probably more like XP Embedded anyhow

Rolf Kalbermatter

[Neville D]

QUOTE (rolfk @ May 12 2009, 12:10 AM)

Which makes it probably more like XP Embedded anyhow

I think the moral of the story is: it might make sense to spend $500 Canadian/US$350/xxxEuros or so up-front on a LV-RT licence when reliability is key. No more windows "auto-updates" and other junk. (And no more vision activation required!! wooohooo!!)

N.

[ShaunR]

QUOTE (Neville D @ May 12 2009, 06:22 PM)

I think the moral of the story is: it might make sense to spend $500 Canadian/US$350/xxxEuros or so up-front on a LV-RT licence when reliability is key. No more windows "auto-updates" and other junk. (And no more vision activation required!! wooohooo!!)

N.

.....And no more compatible file-system.....no more 3rd party support. LV-Rt is only a real option if your system is completely NI based.

QUOTE (rolfk @ May 12 2009, 08:10 AM)

Which makes it probably more like XP Embedded anyhow

Rolf Kalbermatter

Shhhh. Don't tell everyone