No help from me today: experience LAVA as it would be under SOPA or PIPA

[Aristos Queue]

Wikipedia and many other websites are unavailable today to protest and to educate about the dangers of two bills now being considered by the US Congress: PIPA and SOPA. The Stop Online Piracy Act and the PROTECT IP Act both aim to reduce violations of copyright online. The problem is they do this by attacking First Amendment rights, removing judicial safeguards and placing huge amounts of power in the hands of copyright holders. The net effect of this would be to make it nearly impossible to run sites that allow user-posted content, such as LAVA.

Under these bills, the volunteers who run LAVA would have to vet every post, check every VI uploaded, and somehow prove to their own satisfaction that the code posted really is clear of any copyright problems *before* they allowed other users to see the post. Why? Because the LAVA site would be legally liable if anyone in the world complained that their IP had been illegally posted, and the whole site, not just the offending post, could be blacklisted, without judicial review. The burden of proof is on LAVA. Even links to other sites would have to be vetted to make sure that they didn't link to a site that did not also have this sort of prior review.

So today, I won't be answering any questions on LAVA or ni.com, and I am encouraging others to also not post content online (other than SOPA and PIPA discussions). Let today give the experience of a world as we had it before the World Wide Web made knowledge so easy to share. Let it be a call to action because these bills are not some abstract thing off in Washington DC, but legislation that would have a very real impact on the day-to-day operations of anyone doing tech support or relying on a community for help. The SOPA bill has been, for the moment, withdrawn by its authors, but they promise to bring it up later, presumably when the tech community isn't paying so much attention. PIPA is still being considered in the Senate. And although our current president has said he will not support these bills, there's no telling what the next president might do or whether Congress might override a veto.

An excellent write up of these two bills is here, written by the Electronic Freedom Foundation:

https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/01/how-pipa-and-sopa-violate-white-house-principles-supporting-free-speech

[Saverio]

I had posted a few messages already on ni.com and one here before reading this. If I see any more that I would respond to I will respond with a general

"I would have provided a response to this question, but I'm protesting SOPA and PIPA.", and provide a link back to here. I think that may be more effective than simply not answering.

[ShaunR]

I find it a bit bizarre that the link you posted keeps saying "even those in the U.S". It is a proposed U.S. law, is it not? Therefore it is "Only in the U.S".

But this is just the tip of the iceberg IMHO. It's not about IP or copyright. It is about control over the information to the masses and the excuse is IP/copyright. The quicker the US and Europe gets rid of it's NeoCons. The happier everyone will be.

[mje]

The "even those in the U.S." is important, because one of the main arguments for the legislation is to prevent foreign "rogue" sites that are up to no good, at least as has been reported in plenty of the media I've seen. I have not read the bills, but apparently there is no actual distinction between domestic/foreign even though it is one of the very arguments used to support the bill, so the powers granted could be applied on domestic terms.

If this passes, it will obviously have implications outside of the U.S. as well. The ambition of this legislation is both impressive and disgusting. Politicians really need not look far as to why popular opinion of them is so low.

Its also interesting to note of how little information is available via popular media which is controlled by the very organizations lobbying for this bill, or if you do find some, how much misinformation you'll find. I read an article just this morning about how the anti SOPA/PIPA movement's lobbying effort today has proved to be a complete failure and how no important web-dependent companies are bothering with it since they don't consider it important. REALLY?

[SteveChandler]

See this thread on ni.com. Some good comments from Ben and a link to another thread. In those threads you can find links to easily contact your representatives online. A simple "I wish to express my sincere opposition to SOPA and PIPA" is all it takes. Beleive it or not but these politicians actually do not want to piss you off *. They actually want your vote.

* although they are not doing a very good job of that with an 11% approval

[PaulG.]

... The quicker the US and Europe gets rid of it's NeoCons. The happier everyone will be.

NeoCons? SOPA and PIPA support and legislation funding is coming straight from Hollyweird and the music industry. Not exactly right wing. It's the left that consistently wants to obfuscate the truth and choke the free flow of information. Where do you think the now-defunct "Fairness Doctrine" came from? And who wants to bring it back? The left. My $0.02

[ShaunR]

The "even those in the U.S." is important, because one of the main arguments for the legislation is to prevent foreign "rogue" sites that are up to no good, at least as has been reported in plenty of the media I've seen. I have not read the bills, but apparently there is no actual distinction between domestic/foreign even though it is one of the very arguments used to support the bill, so the powers granted could be applied on domestic terms.

That is a misnomer (and a common one) since foreign sites are not bound by US laws. The only thing realistically that can be achieved (as they do in Thailand) is restrict access to those sites from US governed territories. Good luck with extradition on SOPA grounds too.

For example. In the UK they have introduced a law that any business web site must provide a notice that you will be setting cookies on a users machine and only do so with their consent (opt-in). Does it apply to NI sites in the US? Nope. Does the US care? Nope.

I get really tired of the "Axis of Evil" arguments to stir up nationalism (not directed at you, just it's always the justification for anything unpopular both here in the UK and in the US). Politicians can no longer promise us dreams, so they promise protection from nightmares. It's the cold war mentality that really belongs in the 20th century and has done nothing for a safer world. Rather, it has ridden rough-shot over civil rights because we have believed it.

[ShaunR]

NeoCons? SOPA and PIPA support and legislation funding is coming straight from Hollyweird and the music industry. Not exactly right wing. It's the left that consistently wants to obfuscate the truth and choke the free flow of information. Where do you think the now-defunct "Fairness Doctrine" came from? And who wants to bring it back? The left. My $0.02

"Fairness Doctrine"? Never heard of it (can't look it up on Wikipedia either )

[mje]

That is a misnomer (and a common one) since foreign sites are not bound by US laws.

Oh absolutely. Please don't take my post as an expression of my opinion, it was an expression of what I've been reading in the media. Regardless of where you land on the legality/morality of these foreign rogue sites, the authority of US laws on such websites is at best tenuous.

As you've already said though, the intellectual property and copyright issues are really just smokescreens. The real issue is the power grab.

Consider how you think this would have been spun if a country like Iran or China was trying to enact legislation like this. Do you really think media would be talking about copyright? Seriously? Corruption, nationalism, and censorship would be among the first words out of every talking head's mouth if you ask me.

[Phillip Brooks]

A naive British student facing ten years in chains and how our half-witted politicians play poodle to America

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2087574/Richard-ODwyer-extradition-A-naive-British-student-facing-10-years-chains.html#ixzz1jpz2P0eW

[crelf]

Note: although I'm an admin here at LAVA, my posts do not necessarily represent LAVA.

I think the wikipedia blackout page puts it best:

We hope you continue to trust Wikipedia to be a neutral information source. We are staging this blackout because (as Wikimedia Foundation Trustee Kat Walsh said recently), although Wikipedia’s articles are neutral, its existence is not. For over a decade, Wikipedians have spent millions of hours building the largest encyclopedia in human history. Wikipedia is a tremendously useful resource, and its existence depends upon a free, open and uncensored Internet. SOPA and PIPA (and other similar laws under discussion inside and outside the United States) will hurt you, because they will make it impossible for sites you enjoy, and benefit from, to continue to exist. That's why we're doing this.

IMO, replace "wikipedia" with "LAVA", "wikipedians" with "LAVAites" and "encyclopedia" with "independant LabVIEW community", and that pretty much sums it up. I can't think how it would be possible for LAVA to continue to exist without being open to litigation for the site, it's admins, moderators, and members.

[mike5]

That is a misnomer (and a common one) since foreign sites are not bound by US laws. The only thing realistically that can be achieved (as they do in Thailand) is restrict access to those sites from US governed territories. Good luck with extradition on SOPA grounds too.

So, you're saying that the good and benevolent leaders of the US would never put presure on other countries to do what they want?

http://arstechnica.c...-censorship.ars

Br, Mike

Edited January 19, 2012 by mike5

[ShaunR]

A naive British student facing ten years in chains and how our half-witted politicians play poodle to America

Read more: http://www.dailymail...l#ixzz1jpz2P0eW

He won't be extradited...watch this space They are still trying (unsuccessfully so far) to get McKinnon and he actually hacked the pentagon.

So, you're saying that the good and benevolent leaders of the US would never put presure on other countries to do what they want?

http://arstechnica.c...-censorship.ars

Br, Mike

I quite like the first comment from the link that Phillip posted

I quite like the Yanks as a whole but I'd rather deal with them from a little less up their backsides, if possible.

Edited January 19, 2012 by ShaunR

[Phillip Brooks]

I don't think O'Dwyer is really that naive, and I bet his shirt is not a licensed Disney product. The Mickey Mouse Protection Act has been subverted!

Damn pirates taking food from the mouths of the 1%!