How valuable am I in the LabVIEW realm?

[Aristos Queue]

No offense but in the world of LabVIEW applications/systems, my opinion is that NI has a limited view of what real LabVIEW applications look like. I realize that you qualified your statement but I was also offended. There are many reason why you or other NI staff will never see good code. One of them is that a lot of developers including myself simply don't trust NI. You only see what we let you see. :ninja: .

I suspected I'd offend some folks with my statement, but it really is the view that I get from the VIs that I do get to see. Knowing that my view is skewed is part of why I lurk on LAVA and info-LV -- users are willing to share code with each other that doesn't necessarily get shared with NI, and if I happen to be looking I get to see it too. But such lurking still only reveals small utilities and snippets. I've heard the comments about not trusting NI before from others (didn't know you, Michael, were in that camp). I don't know why/when that attitude developed, but the lack of trust causes a blindspot that makes it hard to evaluate what LV features would be helpful to users.

I'm probably going to dig myself a deeper hole here, but I want to expand my comments a bit.

The lack of programming experience among LV users is well-documented -- indeed, NI focuses on such users, since our goal is to provide easier control of the computer for those who would otherwise have to hire someone to do C code. My second-most-favorite bug report of all time is "If my wire is over 16k pixels long then when I right click on 'Clean Up Wire' the function deletes my wire." The common joke to make when that bug report came in was, "Well, it seems like Clean Up Wire did the right thing..." But if you looked at the VI, it wasn't badly written, just huge. It came from a long-time programmer of LV (you'd have to be a long time programmer just to have a VI that spanned 16k pixels...), but it seemed as if no one had ever mentioned the concept of "subVI" to this programmer. I don't mean that stupid things never occur in code from people with CS degrees. Heck, my own code is rife with dumbness that I realize a year later when I review it. But there's a difference in the types of errors between those who ought to know better and those who just never got shown how to do it right. The latter group is arguably the stronger group since they've had to puzzle it out by themselves. But the former group may eventually realize the mistake and correct it. The academic training provides tools for recognizing such code. Further, the academic training gives people a common background and a common terminology, and, in a team environment, that commonality is important.

To me, the problem with a pure experience candidate is the same as with a pure academic. Without the work experience, the academic's theory and training doesn't get honed, and you end up with bloated class hierarchies and impractical ideal designs. An ideal candidate for employment has both the on-the-job experience and the academic training. So if I'm hiring for a job on a programming team, my bias will be first to the person with both experience and academics, and then second to the academic who can gain experience while working, and only third to the pure experience candidate -- because there's no way to get the academic training from holding the job. Now, if I'm recruiting for an academic environment, then the pure work experience is prefereable because they're moving into an environment where they can learn the academic.

It isn't that there aren't incredible programmers who have learned their craft by pure OJT. Those folks do exist. I've met many, and some of them are better than anyone with a degree. But such folks are rare. And that's why I think filtering a resume based on whether or not the person has a degree is a legitimate filter for a business to apply. Without that, you have to, as others on this forum have said, have the personal connection to know that someone's skills directly.

[crelf]

...that's why I think filtering a resume based on whether or not the person has a degree is a legitimate filter for a business to apply. Without that, you have to, as others on this forum have said, have the personal connection to know that someone's skills directly.

...or the company doing the interviewing needs to put some formal academic testing in place to try to find those diamonds in the rough. Sometimes the job market is flooded with skilled applicants, so the interviewer has their pick, which means they don't need to go to great lengths to find a decent candidate - these are the times when resumes without certain attributes are grossly filtered. It's at those other times (like now) when the prospective employer needs to be creative and implement their own ruggedized screening process to get the job done.

Great comments Stephen - well said.

[Bryan]

Another option is to put yourself out there into the community. Some of us around here have done that and are still doing it. Put together some code and submit it to the CR. It will make you feel better. Nothing beats the warmth of the LAVA flow...

I actually have something I created as a quick tool that I could submit. I need to clean it up a bit and add some functionality I've been thinking about as well as documentation before I submit it (I'm sure someone has already created something like it though). My problem is just getting time to spend on it right now. My son and work pretty much dominate my day.

[crelf]

I actually have something I created as a quick tool that I could submit...

:thumbup: Bring it on!

[Gary Rubin]

Bryan,

You wrote this in another one of your posts:

Spelling, grammar and punctuation mistakes are a pet peeve of mine, especially on the internet (my mom is a reading specialist, so she pounded it into me).

This has earned me the title of "Grammar Nazi" on one of the online BBs I administer. It was originally intended to be an insult to me, but I embraced it.

I think that's another big selling point, although it's not directly related to your Labview LabView LabVIEW skills.

In my opinion, the ability to express oneself clearly and concisely is greatly underappreciated. I work in a group of ~40 people, including engineers, technicians, and scientists. We do not have a dedicated marketing or business development department, meaning that most of us scientists/engineers have the opportunity to work on proposals, reports, and/or marketing literature. I often find myself editing other people's inputs for these types of documents. One of my pet peeves, as someone from a liberal arts background, is engineers who seem incapable of writing a readable paragraph.

BTW, you and I seem to have a lot in common - same flags on our signatures, both have 1-year-olds, and my wife is currently studying to become a reading specialist...

[Bryan]

I believe that I communicate better in written form than orally. I don't know if my mind is going faster than I have the ability to move my mouth and get them out or what. Occasionally I'll be in a hurry and let written mistakes slip, but I try not to.

I also think that how someone communicates in written form (especially on the internet) is a good indication of their credibility, thoroughness and respect for their audience. The way some kids communicate on the web nowadays irks the living hell out of me. One of my friends has a point though. He said that written and oral communication has evolved to what it is today and is still evolving. My only qualm is that it seems like we went from primitive pictographs to written text and are now going to 'internet shorthand' and on the road back to pictographs.

Back to my LabVIEW stuff though. I've had times where I've generated an application or program that is neat and tidy as well as (what I perceive to be) well laid out and efficient... to the best of my knowledge/ability. Only thing is that nobody else gets to see it. I've wanted to create my own LabVIEW programming samples to provide with a resume, but never have time to develop my own, and the ones I've created are proprietary intellectual property of the companies for which I've worked. Someday hopefully, I'll get around to creating some that's MINE.

Gary, it's funny that we have so much in common. I've ordered my state flags in order of residency. I'm a PA native, but moved from PA > CA > VA. If yours are ordered similarly, it looks like you went from VA to CA.

[Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden]

Does anyone else remember Dr. Suess' "The Star-bellied Sneaches" (sp?)

It addresses the idea of a group that has a special gift using it as a reason to look down on others.

Some of us were not given the gift of spelling.

That does not mean that we can not communicate effectively.

A rough quote from a hebrew tutorial illustrates.

"F y cnt rd ths yv gt rcks n yr hd!"

Now back to my pictograms and associated wiring.

Ben

[Gary Rubin]

Gary, it's funny that we have so much in common. I've ordered my state flags in order of residency. I'm a PA native, but moved from PA > CA > VA. If yours are ordered similarly, it looks like you went from VA to CA.

I did mine the other way around. VA is most recent, so I put it first.

Born in PA (didn't bother putting that on there), moved to CA very young, and came to VA after college.

[LAVA 1.0 Content]

"F y cnt rd ths yv gt rcks n yr hd!"

I read it perfectly, Thank you...

[jhoskins]

I read it perfectly, Thank you...

HILLBILLY WORDS

m r ducks

m r not

o s a r

L I B

m r ducks

English translation

Them are ducks

them are not

Oh yes they are

well I'll be

them are ducks

[Yair]

"F y cnt rd ths yv gt rcks n yr hd!"

I can't read that. I think I might have rocks in my head. :headbang:

Regarding writing style on the web - at least for me, writing in forums such as these is often done as a break from other things and in some cases even in the middle of doing other things, so my text is not always as fluent and clear as I'd like to be and I don't always get to reread it before posting.

I'm also one of those without a built in spell checker, so spelling mistakes do creep in sometimes (usually brought on by typing fast and not paying attention). This is less an indication of disrespect and more an indication of the nature of the beast - a text which is written fast and will often only be read once, so it's not always perfect.

Of course, the distance from there to using "pls", "gr8" and their various friends is gr8.

[Bryan]

I didn't mean to insult anybody or anything by saying what I said (my brother actually had problems with spelling in school). I was talking about people who do it out of general laziness and/or don't even try, not out of their own abilities or limitations. It just irritates me, just like someone writing in all caps when it's not necessary.

I apologize if I offended anyone, it wasn't my intent

[Michael Aivaliotis]

This is less an indication of disrespect and more an indication of the nature of the beast - a text which is written fast and will often only be read once, so it's not always perfect.

I think this is true for emails but not true for web publishing. Oh, wait a minute; you didn't realize you were publishing? Well, you are. As we speak, several websites are sucking in the LAVA RSS feed and displaying the posts on there front page. Your message is crawled by Google and Yahoo on a weekly basis and added to the archive of information which will be scanned by future researchers looking for help on LabVIEW programming or other strange keywords. Once it's out there baby, it's permanent. For the world to see.

[Yair]

will be scanned by future researchers looking for help on LabVIEW programming or other strange keywords. Once it's out there baby, it's permanent. For the world to see.

Hopefully, those who are already clever enough to do the searching instead of asking straight away will also manage to get through my occasional badly phrased answers or have the common sense to read some more answers.

Anyway, if I really minded, I would either seriously proof read each and every post or not post them at all.

Incindentally, my last post has a perfect example of a typical error which happens when writing fast - it's missing the word "it" near the end, for whatever reason.

so my text is not always as fluent and clear as I'd like to be

[Michael Aivaliotis]

Hey, no skin off my back. That's why there are spell checkers and you can edit your post on LAVA for at least 24hrs after your post.