TG Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 Greetings, After many weeks of marathoning in LabVIEW I am beginning to see signs of serious trouble in my right(mouse) hand. What ergonomic advice could I get here from the hard core advanced architects? I am currently considering Track IR but is anyone able to use it for LV? What ergonomic devices do you use and how effective are they? Thanks in advance. John Quote Link to comment
Gary Rubin Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 QUOTE(John Rouse @ Mar 15 2007, 01:11 PM) After many weeks of marathoning in LabVIEW I am beginning to see signs of serious trouble in my right(mouse) hand.What ergonomic advice could I get here from the hard core advanced architects? I used to use a Kensington trackball, which got rid of my wrist pain. The one that I had was probably the predecessor to http://us.kensington.com/html/2200.html' target="_blank">this one. Quote Link to comment
Tomi Maila Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 This is my top 10 list in the order of importance Excercise enough (sports, walking, ...) Avoid stress :thumbup: If you feel too much pain, stop working, it will only get worse Think more, you need to code less (or at least you get more results) Study more, you learn to code more effectively Choose an ergonomic office chair that fits to you well Keep short breaks at least every hour Adjust the table height so that you don't have to keep your hands at tension Get a docking station, external keyboard and external monitor if you are using a laptop Use a good laser mouse, I prefer Logitech MX Revolution Quote Link to comment
syrus Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I like Tomi's list. I do something else too--I use a different mouse and keyboard at work and at home. At work, I use a Microsoft 5-button optical mouse, and at home I use an earlier version of the Logitech 5-button optical mouse. I use a Dell quietkey at work, but use a Microsoft Natural Keyboard (the original MS ergonomic keyboard--not the "elite" which sucks). I find that drinking tea and water while working helps with the hourly breaks. I go to the restroom every hour by afternoon if I'm drinking enough fluids. QUOTE(Tomi Maila @ Mar 15 2007, 09:34 AM) This is my top 10 list in the order of importance Excercise enough (sports, walking, ...) Avoid stress :thumbup: If you feel too much pain, stop working, it will only get worse Think more, you need to code less (or at least you get more results) Study more, you learn to code more effectively Choose an ergonomic office chair that fits to you well Keep short breaks at least every hour Adjust the table height so that you don't have to keep your hands at tension Get a docking station, external keyboard and external monitor if you are using a laptop Use a good laser mouse, I prefer Logitech MX Revolution Quote Link to comment
JohnRH Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 QUOTE(John Rouse @ Mar 15 2007, 01:11 PM) Greetings,After many weeks of marathoning in LabVIEW I am beginning to see signs of serious trouble in my right(mouse) hand. What ergonomic advice could I get here from the hard core advanced architects? I am currently considering Track IR but is anyone able to use it for LV? What ergonomic devices do you use and how effective are they? Thanks in advance. John I also believe that simply learning to relax while you work (both physically and mentally) makes a HUGE difference. (It may actually take practice to learn to do this.) Also - pay attention to minor physical discomforts. Some people ignore them because they are minor, but over time these minor discomforts can turn into serious and perphaps permanent injuries. Then of course, as already mentioned - exercise! It doesn't have to be strenuous or lengthly to make a huge difference. As for hardware, I have yet to find a mouse that is really ergonomic. (I find trackballs too difficult to program with) Quote Link to comment
leblanc Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 excellent tips tomi. I agree with gary, but i use TrackMan® Wheel http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/products...,CONTENTID=5002 In reality windows is what made the mouse big. Autocad is a great example of how a software developer can integrate command line into cad software. Learn coding shortcuts similar to those found in vi and vim. By learning keyboard shortcuts you really decrease the use of the mouse and improve your overall productivity - especially for a programmer like myself. Quote Link to comment
Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 First I urge you to concider seeing a doctor. CT can disable you. I was waking up at night with shooting pains in my forearms. Second Mice are evil creatures. They chew your wrists up. Never touch one again! Continuing: I managed to code in LV for about 5 years without any trouble. Then I did a 6 month 12 hour a day marathon and my problems started. I now use a hacked up Mouse Pad http://forums.ni.com/ni/board/message?boar...3&jump=true that I flipped over and re-inforced with a steel plate to hold my Kensington Expert Mouse. The track ball is held to the mouse pad using a pair of small bungy cords. This lets me put my trackball were my hand falls rather putting my hand were the track ball is. It also permits me to adjust the angle so the palm of my hand is at about a 35 degree angle relative to the plane of the floor. The mouse pad straps onto the arm of a chair so my hand is in the same "rest" position it would be in if I was just sittng there with a beer in my hand. NOTE: The slight twist of the wrist required with flat mouses or horizontally mounted track balls causes the two bones in my lower arm to cross while track balling. I also have a pull out adjustable tray that lets me postition the keyboard, again, where my hands are rather than the other way around. I also wear a pair of wrist braces (the fancy ones with three straps a splint and padding). The first day I put them one my writsts started feeling better. I alos discovered that once I had done the damage, that driving my Cavalier was casusing problems. Oddly enough, this is not the case with my pcik-up. So i have a pair in the car I use while commuting. As it stands today, I am pain free and have been so for alomost a year now. It would have been longer but I found myself debugging an application on-site without any of my aides. At that time I was scared I would be forced into an early retirement. Closing: I am not a doctor and none of the above should be concidered as such. If the pain is affecting your work, take action, otherwise it will get worse. Ben Quote Link to comment
dthomson Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 QUOTE(Ben @ Mar 15 2007, 11:14 AM) FirstI urge you to concider seeing a doctor. CT can disable you. I was waking up at night with shooting pains in my forearms. A lot of good suggestions from all the above posts. I second the idea that any indication of pain should not be taken lightly, but rather acted on immediately to prevent potentially great discomfort. I ended up with chronic back/neck pain for the last 10 years. 90% sure it's from computer work (e.g. mostly LabVIEW). Tried almost everything but never found a silver bullet. Ergonomics is defnitely a good starting point, though. (Actually, I may be on the road to recovery at the moment. Just found a new PT who really seems to know about neck pain. It seems to be helping...) I got the Kensington trackball mentioned above a couple weeks ago. Not quite an expert with it, but I like it so far. I've used Kensington Orbit trackballs for years. I have no problem getting trackballs to work for LabVIEW programming, but I know a lot of people who sit down at my computers are unable to use them very successfully. In any case, the new Kensington has a lot more functionality than the Orbit - four buttons plus a scroll wheel. (I haven't quite mastered the scroll wheel yet...) But I got tired of the Orbit not having a 3rd button or scroll wheel. The new one cost more, though. I also tried a fancy touch pad, regular mice, and even a foot mouse. Never got them to work well for me. I could do regular computer work, but wiring in LV was difficult. I also connected another Orbit trackball up to my computer (USB) and rewired it internally to switch left and right buttons, so I have another mouse available for switching off hands. I know another fellow who swears by this, but I don't tend to use it much. Cheers, Dave T. Quote Link to comment
Tomi Maila Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 I must raise up one more thing. I have had quite a lot of back and neck pain for last few years. I bought a new quite expensive Tempur-Pedic millenium pillow and it has really helped to releaf the pain, although not complitely. I didn't consider a pillow could make such a difference but it did. I'm now considering to buy a Tempur-Pedic mattress as well, but the price is quite a lot for a mattress so I've not made my mind yet. Tomi Quote Link to comment
Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 QUOTE(dthomson @ Mar 15 2007, 02:25 PM) ...I also tried ... a foot mouse. Never got them to work well for me. I could do regular computer work, but wiring in LV was difficult.... Cheers, Dave T. I looked at those and thought if all else fails.... Bummer. Ben Quote Link to comment
Jeff Plotzke Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 A little off-topic... but has anyone tried LabVIEW on a tablet PC? It would be interesting to get an interface to use the stylus to control LV instead of the mouse... Quote Link to comment
george seifert Posted March 16, 2007 Report Share Posted March 16, 2007 QUOTE(John Rouse @ Mar 15 2007, 11:11 AM) Greetings,After many weeks of marathoning in LabVIEW I am beginning to see signs of serious trouble in my right(mouse) hand. What ergonomic advice could I get here from the hard core advanced architects? Thanks in advance. John I switched to a trackball and it made a big difference. You also might want to check out these websites (no affiliation, but it did help me). http://www.aboutcts.com/ http://www.julstro.com/what_is_rsi.html George Quote Link to comment
PeterB Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 QUOTE(Tomi Maila @ Mar 16 2007, 06:37 AM) I must raise up one more thing. I have had quite a lot of back and neck pain for last few years. I bought a new quite expensive Tempur-Pedic millenium pillow and it has really helped to releaf the pain, although not complitely. I didn't consider a pillow could make such a difference but it did. I'm now considering to buy a Tempur-Pedic mattress as well, but the price is quite a lot for a mattress so I've not made my mind yet.Tomi A cheaper option that I use is to roll up a small towel and slide it inside the pillow cover so that it rests under the front edge of the pillow - closest to the bed side of the pillow (as opposed to the top side of the pillow) The technique is briefly referred to http://www.abc.net.au/rn/talks/8.30/helthrpt/stories/s526629.htm' target="_blank">here. (2nd last paragraph in the interview transcript) regards Peter Quote Link to comment
Yair Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 QUOTE(Jeff Plotzke @ Mar 15 2007, 10:23 PM) A little off-topic... but has anyone tried LabVIEW on a tablet PC? Not a tablet PC, but I often deploy my programs on touch screen PCs (with XP). The touch screen on these things does not usually have the refined accuracy needed to do LV work. Quote Link to comment
Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 regarding the kneck and shoulder thing. I get that if I have to reach out for the trackball. By moving the trackball such that it is under my hand when I am sitting comforatbly, with my arms resting on the arms of my chair, I can eliminate that pain. Think fetal position! We all spent 9 months in tha postion with problems. Organize your work space such that are as comfortable as possible. Trying to help, Ben Quote Link to comment
Aristos Queue Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 I moved my mouse to the other hand when I'm at home. It took a bit to get used to, but now I can hand the mouse off easily from one hand to the other. This avoids too much stress on one wrist and lets me rest one side when it gets tired. Quote Link to comment
crelf Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 Get one of these - they take a week or so to get used to, but you'll never go back... Quote Link to comment
george seifert Posted March 17, 2007 Report Share Posted March 17, 2007 QUOTE(crelf @ Mar 16 2007, 09:54 AM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kneeling_chair' target="_blank">Get one of these - they take a week or so to get used to, but you'll never go back... I went back. It hurt my knees. George Quote Link to comment
Catweazle Posted March 18, 2007 Report Share Posted March 18, 2007 When I once got pain after EXTREME wiring I bought this chair and an intuos3 pen tablet from Wacom. These tools and some exercises for back and shoulders was exactly what I needed! Quote Link to comment
Grampa_of_Oliva_n_Eden Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 QUOTE(Catweazle @ Mar 17 2007, 11:50 AM) When I once got pain after EXTREME wiring I bought http://www.swopper.de/' target="_blank">this chair and an intuos3 pen tablet from Wacom. These tools and some exercises for back and shoulders was exactly what I needed! Are sure that is a chaid and not an amusement ride? Ben Quote Link to comment
crelf Posted March 19, 2007 Report Share Posted March 19, 2007 QUOTE(Ben @ Mar 18 2007, 09:45 PM) Are sure that is a chaid and not an amusement ride? It looks a little kinky to me (...not that there's anything wrong with that) Quote Link to comment
LAVA 1.0 Content Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 I just saw this chair on an HGTV program this weekend! It was described as "for the kids". I always knew Ben was a kid at heart (Edit: Just did a quick search, and these are not priced for kids; at least mine ~$600 US. When it comes to your health and ability to support those kids, its certainly acceptable.) Quote Link to comment
Catweazle Posted March 20, 2007 Report Share Posted March 20, 2007 QUOTE(Ben @ Mar 18 2007, 12:45 PM) Are you sure that is a chair and not an amusement ride? They call it a "chair" but as you guess its actually both Quote Link to comment
TG Posted March 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted March 21, 2007 QUOTE(Catweazle @ Mar 19 2007, 07:22 AM) They call it a "chair" but as you guess its actually both Thanks guys Been reallty busy last few days. I Just read all your posts and now Im gonna study them. Best regards Quote Link to comment
TG Posted July 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted July 26, 2007 QUOTE(John Rouse @ Mar 20 2007, 02:43 AM) Thanks guysBeen reallty busy last few days. I Just read all your posts and now Im gonna study them. Best regards I'm bumping this to bring it to the top. Ill make another post. Quote Link to comment
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