Aristos Queue

There is another thread in the Lounge where the first post is claimed to have been written by God: http://forums.lavag.org/index.php?s=&s...ost&p=55145 Several aspects of God's replies are interesting to note. The misspellings occur in ways that seem implausible for a human being typing. I don't know why I say this... just years and years of English grammer, working as a copy editor on newspapers, reading various forums on the Internet... it doesn't "feel" right. And the content that God is discussing -- the numerological significance of LAVA member numbers -- could be harvested easily. So I'm considering the possibility that this is a bot, not a real person. I was not going to post anything, except that I started contemplating a question of philosophy. The Turing Test is the basic test for Artificial Intelligence: if a known person sits down at a keyboard and chats with an unknown Other, if the Other cannot be distinguished from an intelligent human being then the Other should be considered artificially intelligent if the Other turns out to actually be a computer. Now, here we have a post that claims to be God. And what I was wondering is whether emulation of God is considered passing or failing the Turing Test. In one respect, if an intelligent person chats via text with a computer and cannot distinguish the computer from a deity, then perhaps we count that as scoring really well on the Turing Test. On the flip side, perhaps we at that point question the qualifications of the person doing the test. This is not something I'm necessarily interested in debating on the forums. It's just something I've been musing upon as the God posts roll in, and I thought others might have similar contemplations. Oh, one more thing -- if God turns out to be actually a computer application, and that application happens to be written in LabVIEW by one of the users around here, I definitely want to know -- it would make a great NI Week presentation.

QUOTE (horatius @ Dec 4 2008, 06:48 PM) It occurs to me that this might make a good advanced track NI Week presentation. I'll mention it to folks and see if it gets any traction.

QUOTE (TobyD @ Nov 18 2008, 12:47 PM) Reported as CAR 134006.

QUOTE (vugie @ Nov 17 2008, 09:17 AM) a) What version of LV are you using? b) Does it only do it the first time you launch VI Prop dialog in a given run of LV or is it everytime you launch the dialog?

Do you have items in your palette that are located on a network drive? The palettes for LV get loaded in the background and palettes on a network drive yield exactly the behavior you're seeing. You can change the load options for the palettes in Tools>>Options>>Palettes to remove this effect.

I'd do this: Cluster contains two child clusters, Alpha and Beta. Case structure to decide which child cluster you want to operate on. In Frame Alpha, drop an In-place Element Structure to unbundle Alpha. In Frame Beta, another In-place Element Structure to unbundle Beta. Then call the same subVI in both frames, with the cluster passed in and coming out again on the other side of the subVI. Note that if you need other elements from the parent cluster in order to do the operation, those should be unbundled in both frames and passed into the subVI as well. Second option: Don't use two child clusters. Instead use an array of clusters with two elements. Then you can index which element you want to use.

Your VI probably has opened a VI Reference to itself. That reference will hold the app in memory even after the window is closed. You need to find and close that VI Reference.

Could you, for the purposes of profiling, go ahead and load all the VIs into memory (by opening their front panels) and then run? That way they stay in memory throughout the run. True, you would lose the timing info of how long it takes to load/unload those VIs, but if what you're after is algorithm overhead, that might suffice.

QUOTE (crelf @ Oct 28 2008, 07:40 PM) Ah. Yes. That I have heard of, and even seen demos of. :-) In another context, I might have gotten OGB as OpenG Builder, but as "OGB's namespace feature", I was searching the internet for some sort of naming scheme like Hungarian notation or somesuch.

This story was posted on the NI RSS feed, but the headline was, in my opinion, not attention-grabbing enough. So I'm reposting it here in the Hardware forum, since it is very relevant to those who use hardware. National Instruments Launches Global Take-Back Program: Customers Now Can Return NI Products for Free Recycling http://digital.ni.com/worldwide/bwcontent....62574eb006e50ad

QUOTE (Michael_Aivaliotis @ Oct 28 2008, 02:25 AM) Ah, but sometimes I think some people get lax because so many of our private functions don't change for a long time, or ever, and it is easy to assume that rusty nail will always be there. This one I know code has been actively worked on so it will return different results than it does today in some cases. I figured it was worth the explicit warning.

A library is a namespace. There are many types of libraries. Among these are the .lvlib file and the .lvclass file. So, yes, there is already a namespace for the VIs in the class. Now, if you want to namespace the class itself, put the class into a .lvlib. I've never heard of the OGB system so I can't do the compare/contrast that you asked for.

My experience: If you find a kid who by age 5 has the self-discipline to focus on something for longer than 30 seconds in order to understand how it works, you can hand them any text-based programming langauge as soon as they can really read and then stand back and let them mostly run with it. Software is the most empowering tool in that kid's world at that point--- words that have power to make things happen are generally the domain of adults. LV and NXT Mindstorms are visual languages that can be taught below the reading threshold. I've seen very young kids make incredible headway with these tools. The unteachable part is that focus --- the natural predators who are capable of sitting in the grass for hours waiting for a chance to seize prey. Curiously enough, when I've described the students that are the best fits for computer science, I get strange looks from my political friends. Apparently those same kids are the ones to watch out for as master politicians. And yet most programmers I meet are apolitical (as a generalization, there are definitely exceptions). All of this is merely annecdotal, but it is what I keep my eyes open for when teaching.

And, just to be explicit, the behavior of that private method *will* be different in a future version of LV than it is today. There's a reason it was private for the moment. You have been warned.

The 2D picture control cannot do what you're asking for. The 3D picture control can. Take a look in the palettes at Functions>>Programming>>Graphics & Sound>>3D Picture Control The 3D API is simply a much more modern API than the 2D API. You can draw 2D pictures with the 3D API. I know no more details than that... check the online help and the shipping examples for more info.

I fixed it. This does what you're asking for very fast (a few milliseconds): Download File:post-5877-1224986912.vi The attached VI is saved in 8.5.1. Just in case you cannot load that version, here's a picture of the code: QUOTE (jdunham @ Oct 25 2008, 06:07 PM) Or just let the array pre-allocation be taken care of by an auto indexing output terminal of a For Loop. :-)

QUOTE (Ton @ Oct 24 2008, 12:56 AM) Does Vetinari rule Ankh Morpork?

QUOTE (Omar Mussa @ Oct 23 2008, 02:05 AM) Good heavens NO. This isn't French or German we're talking about. We have no legislature to declare which words are in and which are out. In English, writers and speakers may freely verbify, acronymize, contracti'nate, metametaphoraize (or asimileate), slangerz and prepostreundisabigurhyme0. This is the language of Carrol ("T'was brillig, and the slithy toves did gyre and gimble in the wabe. All mimsy were the borogrooves and the mome raths outgrabe."), science (quarks, gravitons, bogons...), and product marketing (lite, FedEx, google, spandex...). In English, John Cage may declare silence to be music, teenagers may declare cool and hot equivalent, and we can load the word "run" with 150+ individual definitions and still somehow meaningfully talk to each other1. Eskimos may have 100 words for "snow"2, but English could have 10000 snowesque words in moments should the need arise! Other languages have boundaries. Those other languages are merely subsets of English that are not yet in common usage. That isn't just cavalier propaganda: from kindergarten to college we are taught that when English reaches nadir of its existing word cache, it has the chutzpah to pick up its tomahawk, breeze into other languages, loot their alphabets, adages, algebras, aphorisms, et cetra, roll them into a verbal tortilla, perform some magic voodoo on the spelling and, abracadabra, it is a valid English term, one that may be treated as a bit posh despite its sleazy origins. Other languages are adopting this practice as time goes by, some are more gung-ho about it than others. English will someday be the world's language, but it won't be by displacing the others. It will be by embracing them. After all... isn't English the language of Microsoft? :ninja: 0 And curiously enough, I'll bet you can guess what I meant by each one of those words. 1 Check your dictionary -- "run" has more definitions than any other word. 2 Not actually true 3 Including "et cetera" itself

QUOTE (Omar Mussa @ Oct 23 2008, 02:05 AM) Nope. D is itself a dependency, not actually part of the project source.QUOTE (Phillip Brooks @ Oct 23 2008, 06:54 AM) What about the word "terminus" The problem with using any existing word is that people would think they knew what it meant. Suppose I popped up on node D and asked for the terminus nodes. A lot of people would think "Oh, that would be node E". E pretty clearly looks like a terminus. We've been plowing through dictionaries and no one has found anything that was sufficiently unambiguous. When I said "then we need to coin a word so that people will go look it up rather than assume a meaning that is wrong" I was told we couldn't just make up words -- they had to be real English words, preferably localizable. And thus this effort. :-)

Pop up menu items are supposed to be little short phrases, not paragraphs. But sometimes there is no single word that means what you need it to mean. So, in order to be able to provide a reasonable name for a future menu item in LabVIEW, I need all our users to begin using a new word. If you use it in enough places, we may be able to get the dictionaries of the world to incorporate it in their next editions, thereby providing a word we can use for this menu item. The word is "sourcenders". For any given project item under Dependencies, sourcenders are those project items under Source that, as a result of some chain of dependencies, are the reasons that the original project item is included under Dependencies. Or, to put it another way, in any given chain of dependencies, sourcenders are the last items that are under Source and the rest of the dependency chain past that point is listed under Dependencies. Some suggested usages: "On our IRS tax forms, I listed the children as dependencies, but I couldn't find a way to list my spouse as another sourcender." "If you want that structure to hang from the ceiling, you probably need to add some more sourcenders to spread out the pressure." "That problem is algorithmically equivalent to finding all the sourcenders of a given subVI." "Our school chose the name for our new mascot. We're going to be the sourcenders!" "All your sourcenders are belong to us." Our goal is to get this word into common usage by the end of this year. But we can only do it with your help! Those of you who speak foreign languages can help out by coining an equivalent term. Of course, the most helpful are those languages that LV is translated into... knowing that "sourcender" in Spanish is "terminovenera" is interesting but does not help the cause. Thank you for your assistance in this matter. To help you visualize the situation... if all the green nodes in this picture are VIs under source and the red nodes are VIs under dependencies, and I ask for all the sourcenders of node E, then I should get B, C and F (marked with blue stars) as the result. There does not appear to be a word in English for these things.

QUOTE (mbrowne @ Oct 20 2008, 04:29 AM) The thing to watch out for with this approach is that if you are inside the event case for the menu item when you do "keyfocus=true", then the value change event will be sitting in the event queue, but it won't fire until after you leave the event handler for the menu item. You will (I think) be able to get the value from the string control by reading a local variable or the FP Terminal after doing the keyfocus=true, but don't rely upon your event handler doing anything in a value change event.QUOTE (Ton @ Oct 18 2008, 02:17 PM) I can see the point, but as a keyboard junky (come on Darren) this is strange behaviour. It's not about the focus but about the value in the string, it is not available for programming. If I type some text in a string, then use ctrl+c to copy that text, then hit ESC, the text of the string goes back to what it was before I started editing. At no point was the focus taken away from the string, so no Value Change was ever committed. The value in the string has not changed. However, your comments here have given me an idea -- we could have a property on any text entry control -- numerics, strings, paths, etc -- for "Current Editing Value", which would give you the value as it is being typed right now. It would differ from the Value property in that the Value is the committed change. I don't generally work in front panel stuff ... if you like this idea, someone should file it to the product suggestion center on ni.com.

QUOTE (Dan DeFriese @ Oct 19 2008, 11:42 PM) Because all you handed us is VI Reference. The type of VI on that reference is unknown until runtime. No one originally had a need for an inheritance hierarchy of VI refnums the way we have for control refnums, so it wasn't designed into the system.QUOTE (Jim Kring @ Oct 20 2008, 12:11 AM) It sounds like the editor is being lazy and making life harder for me. There is a distinct difference between a system that chose not to implement a feature and one that was never designed to support a feature. QUOTE (Dan DeFriese @ Oct 19 2008, 11:42 PM) IMHO it would be more beneficial to know this type of error at edit-time rather than get surprised at run-time... Of course it would be better. You asked why it is and I told you. This should not be taken as a declaration that this is the best it could possibly be.

a. The behavior is not new for any of the three properties shown here. b. There's a very simple principle at work here. The question "Is *" has three answers: true, false and not a valid question to ask. For example, before checking IsClone, you should have already passed an "Is VI of StandardVI type?" test. It makes code more robust in the long term. When we introduce a brand new VI type, it is much better for code to light up with errors that scream "this code has never been intended to handle this new VI type and you should visit it to explicitly handle it somehow" as opposed to silently doing something that may or may not be valid to do with that type. Here's an example: Suppose we introduce a new "recursion VI type" that explicitly allows recursion in some strange way. But there is some piece of code somewhere that does the following: 1. Traverse VIs looking for a cycle of references 2. When a cycle is found, check each VI and ask "Is 'share reentrant clones' enabled on this VI? If not, return error (recursion not allowed). This new Recursion VI type does not have "share clones enabled". Indeed, it is never valid for this new type to even have clones. Your code is now wrong if one of these new types comes along, but if the property just says "false", you'll never know it. For the record, there is no Recursive VI type in existence anywhere in development, but it was a hypothetical example that I came up with to illustrate this point.

Keyboard shortcuts deliberately do not take away focus... imagine if ctrl+c [cut] or ctrl+v [paste] took away focus from the string. :-) So... expected behavior. No, I don't have any recommendations to help you.

Oh. By "drop as icon immediately" I thought you meant "don't bring up dialog." No, there is no token that will cause an Express Vi to immediately convert to a subVI on drop.