So Ipad2 or Samsung Tab

[dannyt]

Hi All,

I have finally accepted I need something other than my home PC to keep up to date with Lava, NI and much other stuff. Something that is easy, quick and convenient to use in comfort.

It look like it comes down to an Ipad2 or a Samsung Tab. I would get an Ipad2 today except for two things

* No Flash support

Is this really a problem, how much do people miss it, I suspect I will not be able to see NI live webcasts, but could I see the playbacks and the other good stuff NI put out. How about VI shots.

* No separate users accounts

Whatever I get, I know I will not be able to keep it to myself, both wife and daughter will want to use as well, however I will have work related documents emails etc., and there seems no easy way separate this stuff.

So I would be grateful for opinions for any device owners both pros and cons, Finally is the Ipad2 OK with pdf, I have quite a few technical books / manuals in html & pdf I hope to hold on whatever I buy.

cheers

Dannyt

[crelf]

I'd suggest you get a smartphone instead - something like a Droid X2.

[pete_dunham]

I don't own either.

But in a similar case I was deciding between an iPhone and (Samsung) Droid Charge. (Upgrading from original Motorola Droid 1)

After loving all my Samsung products (tvs and monitors) I took the plunge with the Samsung Droid Charge.

I quickly came to regret this decision. Samsung has this phone stuck on Android 2.2.1 and I notice a lot of software bugs. Two of which drive me crazy: twitter and my voicemail programs with fail and only load again after a phone restart. Also my GPS locking, that was fantastic on Motorola Droid original, is finicky at best on this Samsung product.

(This maybe not a problem for the Samsung Tab, but I also can't get rid of a ton of Verizon bloatware without rooting the phone and voiding my warranty).

All my work and personal computer are MACs, which I love, and I paid the price by trying to diversify.

Not sure if this is the input is valid for iPad versus Samsung Tab but, if not, at least I was able to rant

[Darin]

iPad/iPhone owner:

* No Flash support

Is this really a problem, how much do people miss it, I suspect I will not be able to see NI live webcasts, but could I see the playbacks and the other good stuff NI put out. How about VI shots.

If you have very specific sites in mind, this could be a pain. Much of the web has now acquiesced to Apple and provides iPad specific sites or iPad compatible content. Plenty of Flash-free content out there. A big exception used to be the NI forums, but you can now reply without resorting to raw html. Missing Flash is like missing .NET functions in LV for the Mac. Potentially nice and useful and all that, but there are usually better and more platform agnostic ways to go. I must be drinking the Kool-Aid since I consider "Flash Content" to be an oxymoron. Skyfire provides a kludge to handle some Flash video content if you are truly desperate.

As for VI shots, I have not tried, but he calls it a Podcast so I'd suggest a gentle flogging if it did not work on the iPad.

* No separate users accounts

Whatever I get, I know I will not be able to keep it to myself, both wife and daughter will want to use as well, however I will have work related documents emails etc., and there seems no easy way separate this stuff.

By all means let your wife and kids play with it. Soon enough they will want their own. Just give them a page or two to fill with Word World apps and what-not. You can separate email accounts, but not really prevent access. My wife is happy to use a Web interface to get her email, secure and easy on the iPad. You can easily skip the Mail app if you'd like. For document management I use DropBox, it is password protected and easy to keep in sync.

Finally is the Ipad2 OK with pdf

Built in functionality works for me, Avagadro's Number of apps available if necessary.

[hooovahh]

You want flash and separate user accounts? Windows does that. What's wrong with a netbook? Wife got one new for $250. It was fine as is but I put a 9-Cell battery and a 64GB SSD in it. Now it gets over 9 hour running Windows 7.

If you want a touch screen they have netbook tablets, refurbished $400, http://pcdirect.com/deinduo10con1.html new $500 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834200288 comes with 320GB of space. Holds alot more music and movies than any tablet does. You can also plug in SD cards or USB drives, use USB printers, USB TV tuners, USB CD/DVD drives, USB keyboards and mice, external monitors, join domains, comes with 802.11n, and have a full physical qwerty keyboard.

I don't want to add more options to your list but I personally don't see a need for any tablet. I understand they are cool, but if you are looking for a large feature set for the price, tablets don't seem like a good choice.

[crelf]

All my work and personal computer are MACs, which I love, and I paid the price by trying to diversify.

So anything other than mac products are crap? I guess Steve Jobs' marketing techniques worked.

[Antoine Chalons]

Let's not get too passionate... clearly Steve Job's does work, that's just stating the obvious, now that doesn't mean the product out-stands other products.

iPad will let you do what Steve wanted you to do with it, if you try to do something he didn't want you to do it will be very hard.

Mac addict will tell you how much they love their iPads but I think you have to be an Apple-Aware person to use it, people who have never touched a mac often struggle with the iPad - my dad is one of them (well in did touch macs but that was before LabVIEW was released for Windows).

Surely other products could fit your needs, it's more how much of a mac person you are that matters when chosing between iPad and others.

note : I am a mac person but I don't have an iPad, I've used a few at friends' and I know no one who got another tablet.

[dannyt]

Thanks for the various input guys, There is no question the IPad and Mac are good products even qualiy products that do what they do well. I understand the limitatios of the IPad technically I supoose I do not quite undrstand what the impact of those limitations is.

If I had the cash I would get one of each as I suspect happliy and paly but life is not like that, I may add to my problems and look at netbooks as well

Danny

[Daklu]

I picked up a couple HP tablets for cheap at their recent fire sale. They sold out in a hurry here in the US but you might be able to find some in the UK. One is still running WebOS and I installed Android on the other.

My opinion on tablets... more flash than substance. They're fine for consuming information--web sites, ebooks, games, etc.--but they're still a pain if you have to do any substantial input. Anytime I have to input more than a sentence or two of text the lack of a mouse or ctrl-arrow keys for precision cursor placement really annoys me. I can justify a $100 price tag (what I paid) but $400-500? Nope, not worth it.

I'm not much of an Apple fan--their closed ecosystem is too constraining--but it's hard to argue against Steve Jobs' influence on the technology market. What continues to amaze me is how effective Apple's marketing is at convincing people to happily pay premium prices for less functional devices. Yeah, their hardware is usually pretty slick looking, but the marketing machine is where the real genius is.

[Darin]

I should probably have mentioned since I often forget that I did not have to buy my iPad. Having used it and enjoyed it for a long time now, my original sentiment still applies, I would not have paid for one then and I still would not. It is at least twice the price that feels right for its functionality. Cost aside, it does not disappoint, however.

[lvb]

Everyone has their own preferences for portable devices, but I would suggest the following ranking for most people:

1. Smartphone

2. Laptop

3. Tablet

My general advice for portables/tablets/netbooks:

• iOS
  
  • Average user OR gamer
    
    • iOS has by far the most support for gaming (including kids games)
      

    [*]If you already own Apple products

    [*]For teens since iMessage allows "texting" their friends

  [*]Android

  • Technical people who want to tweak their system: "power users"
    
  • If you use a lot of Google or Amazon services
    
  • If you really need flash
    
  • If you want full USB root hub support
    

  [*]Netbooks

  • Tablets with a Bluetooth keyboard are a better option
    
  • Ultra books are a better option
    

One warning about Android devices: *support generally stinks*

I currently own a ViewSonic gTablet that I purchased last February. This tablet was built upon the same chipset as the Motorola Xoom but with 512MB or RAM (the Xoom had 1GB). When I purchased this, there were rumors of official Honeycomb support since Android is Open Source. Well, the Honeycomb source was not released and the vendor stopped product support 6 months after the product release. I am running Honeycomb using a "ROM" from XDA Developers, but it is very slow and buggy. I am surprised if the Tablet functions normally as things only work 80% of the time.

If you are going the Android route, I suggest you do a lot of research and purchase a product that has "guaranteed" upgrades to Ice Cream Sandwich. Usually Samsung, Motorola, and Acer have good support...

[MikaelH]

I bought the Samsung, and I love it.

I like the flexibilities that Android Honeycomb is offering and I can copy and paste files from my network server with the file browser, and of course the best of all, I don't need to use ITunes :-)

//Mike

[hooovahh]

I do not agree with several things you have said.

• iOS
  
  • Average user OR gamer
    
    • iOS has by far the most support for gaming (including kids games)
      

    [*]If you already own Apple products

    [*]For teens since iMessage allows "texting" their friends

I do not believe the iOS to have more support for games than a PC. I would suspect that the number of games I can play or emulator and play on a Netbook likely outnumbers the number of total apps in the app store (which is over 600,000)

Why is the iOS good for texting? Why can't teens text with GoogleTalk? Or Skype? Or a web browser? I would say that a PC would have more accessibility with communication through voice, video, images, and text than a iOS device.

• Netbooks
  
  • Tablets with a Bluetooth keyboard are a better option
    
  • Ultra books are a better option
    

What makes a tablet with bluetooth a better option than a netbook? A tablet will still cost more and have less features than a netbook won't it?

What makes an Ultra book a better option? Does it not have less features and cost more than a netbook?

In closing don't take this as a personal attack I am just trying to counter point an argument for any iOS device on the merit that it has more functionality than a PC.

[Jordan Kuehn]

The iOS will never have as much functionality as a computer. That being said, when it comes to tablets more weight is given to ease of use. The purpose of a tablet is consuming information/media or entertainment. The iPad is successful because it does that out of the box and you aren't burdened with any of the minute details. If you want to be bothered by those details and spend more time customizing your experience you can go in that direction. I think at one end you start with an iPad that holds your hand for you and makes sure you have fun and at the other end you find yourself building a linux kernel for your netbook and customizing your display drivers weekly because the manufacturer doesn't support linux.

I have an iPhone and an iPad1. I will never have a mac computer. The difference is that these things serve separate purposes. I use the iPad to surf the internet while watching tv or keep up with football scores. I use my computer to do real things.

[jgcode]

I have an iPhone and an iPad1. I will never have a mac computer. The difference is that these things serve separate purposes. I use the iPad to surf the internet while watching tv or keep up with football scores. I use my computer to do real things.

I agree, its not a replacement, its an accessory.

I have iPhone which covers me for mobile email, internet, forum etc...

I also have access to iPad - which is a pretty nice bit of kit.

But as the phone does what I need (also acts as a modem), I find having a Windows laptop around is more handy than an iPad is.

[lvb]

I do not agree with several things you have said.

In closing don't take this as a personal attack I am just trying to counter point an argument for any iOS device on the merit that it has more functionality than a PC.

No offense taken, we are all entitled to express our opinions!

I should start by saying that I have a bias against the Intel Atom chipset (netbooks) because I am a Linux user at home. Hardware drivers for Linux Netbooks have been of very poor quality usually with an incomplete feature set. When there is no hardware acceleration, the Atom chip is a SLOOOOW... This applies to both Windows and Linux.

If you are going for productivity, definitely use a desktop PC or a laptop. Battery life aside, why not just spend a few more dollars than a netbook and get a laptop/ultrabook with a "real" processor (sandy bridge) or an old laptop on eBay?

I do not believe the iOS to have more support for games than a PC. I would suspect that the number of games I can play or emulator and play on a Netbook likely outnumbers the number of total apps in the app store (which is over 600,000)

I was comparing Android vs iOS here.

However, both iOS and Android can support the majority of emulators. Tablets are much easier to game with and device drivers are not a worry. My 3 year old can fully navigate and play any game on our Android tablet. She has no idea how to play games on our PC.

As a side note, how do you game on a netbook? Since there is no touch screen, do you use the touchpad for the mouse or just the keyboard?

Why is the iOS good for texting? Why can't teens text with GoogleTalk? Or Skype? Or a web browser? I would say that a PC would have more accessibility with communication through voice, video, images, and text than a iOS device.

iMessage is built into the OS and provides instant notification of a message. It behaves exactly like a text message. Both Android and iOS have applications that allow free texting. I haven't found an equivalent messaging system that is always running on Windows/Linux, can text message mobile phones, and doesn't require a resource intensive application running. Is there a way to get desktop notifications through Windows/Linux from a cell phone text?

What makes a tablet with bluetooth a better option than a netbook? A tablet will still cost more and have less features than a netbook won't it?

I believe tablets range from $200-$600 which is the same price range as a netbook. Neither are "better", but I prefer to use tablets as a consumption device. I am also not worried about our children dropping and pounding on the tablet as they are pretty rugged.

What makes an Ultra book a better option? Does it not have less features and cost more than a netbook?

An ultrabook has more features than a netbook. It is a fully featured laptop optimized for weight and battery life.

Hopefully that explains my opinions (and bias) better. I am curious why you prefer a netbook over a tablet/laptop?

[hooovahh]

No offense taken, we are all entitled to express our opinions!

I can come across as harsh over text some times, glad you don't feel that way.

I understand that from a Linux perspective, driver support is very important, but from Windows side drivers for just about any thing are included in the base install (which is why it has ballooned in size in the last few releases). Of course it doesn't include drivers for all hardware in existence, but installing a fresh Windows 7 on any netbook should have drivers for all hardware.

I have not found the Atom to be too slow for basic browsing, games, emulators, or video play back of non HD video. I have used an Atom for 1080p video play back at native resolution but it was using hardware acceleration which for this discussion of netbooks I am ignoring that. I've also installed LabVIEW and done some (very little) programming. The resolution is what is a killer for me but performance wise it handled it fine. Of course it probably won't be able to handle a full fledged DAQ application but then neither can an iPad, neither were designed with that in mind (at least I hope not)

I was unfamiliar with an ultrabook and my first quick google search brought up atom based PCs which is why I asked if there was any benefit from them. That being said they are two to four times more expensive than a netbook, and personally I don't need the extra performance for what I am using it for.

Gaming on netbooks has alot more options than tablets. I personally prefer a USB game pad (something no tablet I've seen can do). Has rumble two analog sticks and a bunch of buttons, and lots of options for USB game pads. I have used the keyboard and mouse, but I can also use a wireless mouse for FPS gaming. (again no tablet i've seen does this). There are also touch friendly netbooks (which I've linked to earlier) which can have a simple interface for launching applications that are as user friendly as an iPad, where 3 year olds can touch things.

Both Andorid and iOS have free texting? No extra data plan needed? Because I don't have a separate monthly bill for my netbook to have internet. Skype is not very system intensive and has desktop notifications. I'm not sure if it is free but google talk has free texting and that can just run in a web browser. I think they have a stand alone application with desktop notifications too but never used it.

I used the word "better" because you did in your original post. I would not consider a netbook rugged, but I would not consider a tablet (any I've used) rugged either.

As for why I prefer a netbook? I believe I've already mentioned the fact that a netbook gives me many more features than tablet and most the time I've found cheaper netbooks than tablets. I know there are sales and such but the ipad starts at $500, netbooks start at $200. I have other things to spend $300 on, I'll just buy a netbooks which I can upgrade and use extra peripherals, and install any application I want, or write any application I want, with any language I want, etc.

[Phillip Brooks]

Maybe the Dell Duo hybrid is a choice. http://goo.gl/kaJy7

Tablet priced, reversible touch screen gives you sort of a tablet, but has keyboard and usable ports. Dual-boot and run LabVIEW?

I wonder if there is a lighter version of Linux for this netbook; or maybe jolicloud support...

[Jordan Kuehn]

Both Andorid and iOS have free texting? No extra data plan needed? Because I don't have a separate monthly bill for my netbook to have internet. Skype is not very system intensive and has desktop notifications. I'm not sure if it is free but google talk has free texting and that can just run in a web browser. I think they have a stand alone application with desktop notifications too but never used it.

Over wi-fi, yes there are apps that have free texting and the new iMessage is free. You do actually have a separate bill for your netbook to have internet, your cable/dsl/whatever bill. The data plan is for use on the 3G network, which isn't usually an issue from the living room couch. Skype charges for text messages, but there are skype apps for phones that would be free to message skype-skype.

[BrentonLang]

My previous phone was a HTC Windows Mobile Phone. I took the plunge to an iPhone. I must say, yes it is restricting in some ways, but I'm very happy. I dare say that my next phone would probably be another iPhone. Since then, my wife got an iPad2 for work (using the Citrix app) and for basic internet, e-mails and games. Plus about a year ago I got a MacBook Pro. I'm very impressed. If you asked me two years ago what I thought of Apple, I'd say, "waste of money, crap, never touch them". But I'm pretty happy. But yes I agree with JGCode, the iPad shouldn't replace a computer (not yet anyway). It's more of an accessory, or a tool.

I must also add that my mate here at work just got a new Android phone. He loves it, but would have a few apps crash every day. I couldn't stand that.

[asbo]

I must also add that my mate here at work just got a new Android phone. He loves it, but would have a few apps crash every day. I couldn't stand that.

This isn't a symptom of iPhone versus Android, really, unless they're built-in apps and that would surprise me. I've programmed for both platforms and I think that Android is much easier to write code for. It would correlate that more people write apps for that platform which maybe don't have the polish that they should. Also, Android is at a disadvantage hardware-wise; the i* platform has very little hardware variation.

[crelf]

Awesome topic! Good to see such a thread where everyone is playing nice and actually debating technology features, not marketing-based emotions

PS: My original thought where why would you buy a tablet when you could have a smart phone? The only IMHO valid retort to that was someone wanted an eReader - and my response was that, if the only valid reason to have a tablet was to read books, then get an eReader - ePaper is simply amazing: I couldn't imagine reading a book on a tablet for a couple of hours verses using an eReader (my wife has a kobo, and it's awesome).

So I guess I still haven't found a compelling reason to pay for a tablet. Except for

and this.

[John Lokanis]

Just to add some real world experience from someone who has lived on both sides of the fence:

For many years I used Windows PCs professionally and at home (having built many myself over the years). I still use Windows7 at work everyday. However, when our last Dell laptop died, I decided to give the Mac a try. My wife already had an iPhone and I was impressed with the quality and ease of use it offered.

Long story short, we now have 2 MacBook Pros, 2 iPhones and an iPad2.

The first MBP is used for what I call family activities. Photos, web browsing, kids games, school projects. All the things that pretty much any computer can do, but the Mac makes it easier to get done. No extra SW to buy in many cases and very few bug or compatibility issues.

The second MBP is mine. I use it for music production (hobby) and consulting (LabVIEW). I run LabVIEW under MacOSX and in Win7 VMs. Whatever is needed for the job.

The iPad is used as a consumption device. The kids have lots of games and learning software (it is amazing how a 5yr old can figure out how to use iOS with basically zero instruction). I use it for Twitter, web browsing, video streaming, news apps, etc. My wife uses it for email (as noted, you only get one 'user' per device in iOS), Facebook, web and TV. It is a great device when you just want to look up something quick or want to sit on the couch and 'consume' content.

I would never use it to write long docs or even attempt to do real work on it. It is not intended for that purpose.

As for the debate about Apple vs the rest of the companies out there, I will say this: When we were a PC house, I spent a great deal of my time fixing problems with our PCs. Software bugs, HW compatibility issues, random weirdness that seems inherent in all Microsoft software. After switching all that has gone away.

I know a great deal about fixing Windows but I know very little about Unix or MacOSX. Fortunately, the few times I have had to figure out how to fix something on the Mac, it has been very simple to diagnose and correct.

So, if you like playing an IT support person in your free time, by all means get a netbook, Andriod tablet or whatnot and hack away. But if you want to come home from a long day at the office and just use your devices, then seriously consider an iPad.

As for all the comments about Apple being a 'walled garden' I'll add that their garden is 1000x bigger then the rest of the ecosystem out there (as far as apps go) and a wall is not such a bad thing if it keeps out the snakes and bugs and other things that waste your time.

In the meantime, I am patiently waiting for my parents old Dell desktop to die so I can get them to move to a Mac. Then I will finally be able to eliminate 'IT Support' from my list of job titles.

-John

[dannyt]

well lots of comments thanks all.

Though some of the comments almost tempted me down the netbook route, I stepped back from that. If I really want to do some work I will just use my PC at my study desk or maybe get a powerfull laptop, for any real work I do like a big screen, old age so sight going and I also like a good keyboard.

So I am definitly looking at what John nicely called a "consumption device" plus to carry various pdf manuals around on.

I still have a very old Nokia phone, it's battries last many days and it makes phone calls which is all I want from a phone really, I cannot justify, to myself, the cost of both a Tablet & a pretty smartphone and I have concluded FOR ME the smartphone are a little to big to be a handy phone & a little to small to be anything else.

I have since my original post removed the Samsung and now am with the IPad2 or the Motorola Zoom, the Zoom has heavily come down in price in the UK now £329 for 32GB, with GPS, 3G USB port & a MicroSD slot (as typing this I have just found it for £257 !!! that has to be wrong !!!!). So for the IPAD2 we are talking about 1/3 more cost without the 3G, GPS and no USB ports........

It just shows how good the Ipad2 is "or appears" that I am still pondering.

Danny

PS A quick update the £257 option site also had an Ipad2 on it for £408, but looking closer and reading a little more it all seems a little fishy to me possilby a far east grey import scheme so I will forget that at least

[Daklu]

As for all the comments about Apple being a 'walled garden' I'll add that their garden is 1000x bigger then the rest of the ecosystem out there (as far as apps go) and a wall is not such a bad thing if it keeps out the snakes and bugs and other things that waste your time.

If the ecosystem is restricted to only counting tablet or phone software apps, then yes, I'd agree with you. Apple's ecosystem extends beyond that, to phone and the desktop software and hardware, and that certainly isn't 1000x bigger than the rest of the stuff out there.

I'm a firm believer in "to each his own" so if an Apple gadget does the trick for you, that's great. There are always tradeoffs though. Apple isn't a benevolent dictator--like every other business in the world they're in it to make money. I've talked to far too many people with stories of having to pay $400 to replace a $30 cd-rom drive to be comfortable putting my money into a mac, much less converting my entire household to it.

Remember all the huge complaints about MS being a monopoly? Imagine Apple with the same market share.