I am taking a sabbatical from LabVIEW and NI R&D

[Phillip Brooks]

5 hours ago, Rolf Kalbermatter said:

Leaves Reddit, Stackoverflow and YouTube, which I almost never follow. But from what I have seen there, the quality is often very limited both for questions and the answers that are given.

I tried a few years ago to participate on Stackoverflow re: LabVIEW questions, but there was little or no ability to include graphics/images. Whenever I did (using off-site links etc...) moderators who knew nothing about LabVIEW would delete links or downvote my answer to oblivion stating I wasn't following the guidelines. I called them out and told them that they needed to understand the language and I got emails and messages threatening to delete or limit my account. I just stopped participating. Not a friendly environment; but I do find lots of solutions to my Python problems there

Edited April 13, 2022 by Phillip Brooks

[JKSH]

5 hours ago, Phillip Brooks said:

I tried a few years ago to participate on Stackoverflow re: LabVIEW questions, but there was little or no ability to include graphics/images. Whenever I did (using off-site links etc...)

They do provide a built-in image uploader, which we're expected to use instead of off-site links:

 

I had no problems like this: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/36852665/adding-delay-in-data-acquisition-in-labview/36857051#36857051

Edited April 14, 2022 by JKSH

[Reds]

On 4/13/2022 at 9:19 AM, hooovahh said:

I think LAVA gets a decent amount of exposure at NI Week.  It is usually one of the most popular events, aside from the main party put on by NI.  But new developers aren't likely flocking to NI Week, especially recently.  LabVIEW activity on reddit is quite low, less quantity, but I'd also argue less quality than LAVA.  I chime in there occasionally, but without the subforums, it is hard to categorize what you are talking about.  Jokes and memes along side NI announcements, people looking for homework help, and technical discussions all jumbled together feels weird to me.  Other subreddits have enough activity that the popular stuff is pushed up by voting and the algorithm. 

I've been to all of the NI Week conferences in the last ~ 10 years. I never attended a Lava G event, never saw one advertised outside of this forum itself, and never even noticed a room set aside for Lava G at the convention center (I frankly don't even know where the event is held).

If people care strongly about this community here, the best thing to do is to casually let people know on reddit, or ni.com, or stack exchange that this forum exists. It's my belief that this forum only got traction in the first place because it's existence was announced on another forum, info-LabVIEW.

I know most of you guys are hard core engineers, and "dont' believe in marketing". But, you know, the field exists for a reason....

 

 

 

[hooovahh]

36 minutes ago, Reds said:

never saw one advertised outside of this forum itself,

I know I've post it on Twitter and Reddit when the time comes, tagging NIWeek when applicable, and I've seen several others do the same.  I've also brought it up at several user group presentations.  Lots of word of mouth at NI Week, but also people attending the BBQ also have been given ribbons to help advertise the event.  At one point we talked to NI about getting some kind of official announcement in the NI Week flyers for the LAVA BBQ, but the consensus at the time was that we couldn't handle a huge influx of attendees.  In the past we've had large groups of people show up at the BBQ and assume it was an NI sponsored event and was free.  Having a general announcement would probably cause that to happen even more often.

As for the advanced track it has gotten advertisements in different ways.  The first year attendants were given pins that said something like "Ask me about Room G" or something, which people wore with their ribbons.  Post presentations surveys were very positive so NI gave two rooms for the advanced track.  It got a reputation for presentations that were less marketing and more technical, which NI Week surveys for years have been asking for.

36 minutes ago, Reds said:

It's my belief that this forum only got traction in the first place because it's existence was announced on another forum, info-LabVIEW.

I believe the forum got traction because all posts related to scripting were getting deleted from NI's forums.  People wanted a place to discuss the rusty nails that is undocumented features like this was, without having NI's oversite.  LAVA got a reputation for allowing a larger range of discussions, like XNodes, undocumented file structures, password protections, etc.  But to be fair NI themselves have loosened their restrictions on these topics too.

[A Scottish moose]

On 4/13/2022 at 6:40 AM, Bryan said:

Just a thought, but I think that many younger/new developers aren't necessarily searching for online forums anymore. 

My guess is that newer generations of programmers may view online forums as "social media for old timers'".  If they have questions, they may look on platforms such as Reddit, et. al.  If they want to contribute, they may create videos on YouTube or other platforms where the rewards for contributing could be financial, notoriety or "influencer"-like status with a larger potential audience....

As a mid-career guy I think I can speak for some of the younger developers in the world.  If you are working on a programming problem  I think Googling "How do I do <this> in <programming language>" is basically the de facto solution to that problem.  Weither you get the answer from YT, Reddit, Twtr, IG, FB, etc is irrelevant as it the first answer on Google always wins.  This has been true for me for the last 10 years a least for whatever that's worth. 

 

If I could be so bold... I actually think one of LabVIEW's challenges is that it doesn't take well to posting on text forums and requires PNG'd meta files at the least to pass information around.  A 'dump VI to text' option similar to what was used in old video game saves (or Factorio blueprints if you are familiar with that game)  would vastly improve the share-ability of the language.  I might be showing my novelty here if this already exists. it would do a ton of good for the language.

 

 

[ShaunR]

I don't see what all this fuss is about, to be honest. Lavag isn't a company requiring growth for shareholders. Everyone is welcome, of course, but I don't really care if it's just an old-boys network of 20 people. Answers to my questions come from here and never from NI - neither their support of forums.

Don't forget that Lava stands for "LabVIEW Advanced Virtual Architects". They are a dieing breed so it's no wonder there are fewer around. If you want to know how to use LabVIEW then it's better over at NI. If you want to discuss (or argue about ) methodologies and concepts; Lavag is the place.

As regards Stack Overflow and Reddit - give me a break, Reddit is a hell-hole of politics and Stack Overflow is full of stuck-up people who would rather chastise you for how you formulated your question.

[X___]

4 minutes ago, ShaunR said:

 Overflow and Reddit - give me a break, Reddit is a hell-hole of politics and Stack Overflow is full of stuck-up people who would rather chastise you for how you formulated your question.

As if there were no such personalities on NI forums...

[ShaunR]

1 minute ago, X___ said:

As if there were no such personalities on NI forums...

I wouldn't know. The only time I ever go over there is when there is a link from here 

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

8 hours ago, X___ said:

As if there were no such personalities on NI forums...

8 hours ago, ShaunR said:

I wouldn't know. The only time I ever go over there is when there is a link from here 

I do, and I would argue that on the NI forums it is mostly on technical merits.

> Hi, my labview program doesn't work, what should I do to make it work?

Sorry pal, but with that much information I feel terribly overwhelmed! 😀 Besides it is spelled LabVIEW!

> My VI doesn't work. I attached it. How can I make it work? (appended a grainy image of a section of a diagram that spans at least half a dozen screens)

You didn't attach a VI but an image of a small part of the diagram of your VI, and you see, it is said that an image says more than 1000 words and sometimes that is true. But in the case of LabVIEW, the actual VI itself says even more than 100 images! It can be looked at and invisible attributes of objects can be examined and yes it can even be debugged, which an image pretty much can't other than for the most glaring and obvious bugs.

Besides it would help to make a VI that can fit on one screen, and preferably not your 8k ultrawide super duper gaming monitor that nobody else can afford.

Edited April 15, 2022 by Rolf Kalbermatter

[ShaunR]

2 hours ago, Rolf Kalbermatter said:

I do, and I would argue that on the NI forums it is mostly on technical merits.

> Hi, my labview program doesn't work, what should I do to make it work?

Sorry pal, but with that much information I feel terribly overwhelmed! 😀 Besides it is spelled LabVIEW!

> My VI doesn't work. I attached it. How can I make it work? (appended a grainy image of a section of a diagram that spans at least half a dozen screens)

You didn't attach a VI but an image of a small part of the diagram of your VI, and you see, it is said that an image says more than 1000 words and sometimes that is true. But in the case of LabVIEW, the actual VI itself says even more than 100 images! It can be looked at and invisible attributes of objects can be examined and yes it can even be debugged, which an image pretty much can't other than for the most glaring and obvious bugs.

Besides it would help to make a VI that can fit on one screen, and preferably not your 8k ultrawide super duper gaming monitor that nobody else can afford.

While that may be true to a greater or lesser extent. Stack Overflow will close the thread so you can't give more details, ask more probing questions or help them in any way. What it means is that Google search is littered with dead ends.

[Aristos Queue]

On 4/14/2022 at 8:34 AM, Reds said:

I know most of you guys are hard core engineers, and "dont' believe in marketing". But, you know, the field exists for a reason....

I'm honestly unsure how you missed it. If you have suggestions for what would have caught your attention, please share them.

Yes, the primary announcement is here on LAVA. But there's signs at multiple booths on expo floor from the sponsoring companies. Many of us include slides at the end of our presentations (assuming we're presenting on a day before the event). Various people wearing LAVA badges are all over who will happily talk about it. But it is not an NI event, so it usually isn't in any NI communication. 

The event is generally filled at or near capacity with 100+ engineers. We would welcome more if you have ideas.

[Aristos Queue]

15 hours ago, ShaunR said:

Stack Overflow is full of stuck-up people who would rather chastise you for how you formulated your question.

I have been a community admin for another Stack Exchange site, and the difference in tone between the various sites astounds me. I didn't understand how much rides on the tone the admins take. Stack Overflow, the main Exchange, is really bad to the point that I have shadow accounts to ask questions there because once you ask what is seen by some as a dumb question, they follow you to your next question with "you're still an idiot" type comments. It's massively helpful when it is helpful and deeply insulting when it is not. But it doesn't have to be that way -- it's the choice of the admins for that particular Exchange site. 

15 hours ago, X___ said:

As if there were no such personalities on NI forums...

There's a difference between one or two obnoxious persons shining a flashlight in your eyes versus a group of people with laser pointers and magnesium flares. In my experience, Stack Overflow is the latter form of hell.

[A Scottish moose]

5 hours ago, Aristos Queue said:

I have been a community admin for another Stack Exchange site, and the difference in tone between the various sites astounds me. I didn't understand how much rides on the tone the admins take. Stack Overflow, the main Exchange, is really bad to the point that I have shadow accounts to ask questions there because once you ask what is seen by some as a dumb question, they follow you to your next question with "you're still an idiot" type comments. It's massively helpful when it is helpful and deeply insulting when it is not. But it doesn't have to be that way -- it's the choice of the admins for that particular Exchange site. 

There's a difference between one or two obnoxious persons shining a flashlight in your eyes versus a group of people with laser pointers and magnesium flares. In my experience, Stack Overflow is the latter form of hell.

I have always found that the core LabVIEW community to be kind and welcoming and more than willing to support and bring up new developers.  This is one of my favorite things about LabVIEW; that people actually have a passion for the language and the culture that it creates.  You write Python because everyone else writes Python.  You write LabVIEW because it's a unique experience and sharing that experience is part of the package.  The Architect's Summit every year was one of my favorite weeks of the year for this reason (aside from the free food  ).  The people on this forum are some of those most responsible for keeping that community expressly *not* like other programming communities out there.  It's a big selling point for the language and why I think it was so successful (IMO) in the mid '10s. 

[jcarmody]

On 4/15/2022 at 10:03 AM, Aristos Queue said:

[...] "you're still an idiot"

Off topic, but you've struck on a perfect name for my next online chess account!  I'll drop the "you're" and add a few underscores, but that's it.  Thanks.

[Stagg54]

7 hours ago, jcarmody said:

Off topic, but you've struck on a perfect name for my next online chess account!  I'll drop the "you're" and add a few underscores, but that's it.  Thanks.

I'll just stick with the self-deprecating one "yes_i_am_aware_i_am_still_an_idiot". Probably not taken.

[Aristos Queue]

17 hours ago, Stagg54 said:

I'll just stick with the self-deprecating one "yes_i_am_aware_i_am_still_an_idiot". Probably not taken.

I_was_smarter_when_I_was_your_age

Can be read two different ways. 😉

[A Scottish moose]

On 4/19/2022 at 8:48 AM, Aristos Queue said:

I_was_smarter_when_I_was_your_age

Can be read two different ways. 😉

Perceived_IQ = (150-age)

[hooovahh]

That reminds me of a couple insults that I like but rarely use.  "Room temperature IQ", and "Shoe size IQ".  Digressing a bit but my new favorite is "You aren't the dumbest person on the earth...but you better hope they don't die."  Also I think I'm more wise in my age, but I'm less flexible.  I've also been told I'm hard to talk to, abrasive, and unapproachable.

[ShaunR]

8 hours ago, hooovahh said:

I've also been told I'm hard to talk to, abrasive, and unapproachable.

Hold my beer 

That's a great program, your son must be at least 8 or 9.

If you did [insert some sage programming wisdom here], it might actually do what you think it does. 

Your program has a couple of bugs. Let's give it to someone that might be able to fix them.

Hmmm. I've seen that architecture before. Isn't it called the spaghetti factory pattern?

Don't worry. It's not that bad. I'll just put in a capital requisition for another 8 monitors to view the diagram.

Edited April 25, 2022 by ShaunR