NI drags its feet...

[Sam Dexter]

... to provide us with an upgrade to our software which we bought back in 2017. And this is going on for more than a year now.

 

The story is simple - our company bought a license for NI EMBEDDED CONTROL AND MONITORING SOFTWARE SUITE, USB,

SPR17, Rev 007, 2017.06.07 and we successfully downloaded the SP1 upgrade later on. The next year we bought a subscription

to LabView 2018 but did not renew it for 2019 and went back to using 2017. Meanwhile our downloaded SP1 files gone missing.

"No problem" - we thought - "We'll just go to the NI website and download our SP1."

 

https://www.ni.com/en-ca/support/downloads/software-products/download.embedded-control-and-monitoring-software-suite.html#306390

 

Not that fast! To download previous versions of LabView you need an active subscription. OK... So, how do you get missing pieces

for your software you have a license for if you do not have an active subscription? We contacted NI and their representative Newark

and asked them for help... Long story short - we are still waiting for a resolution.

 

Meanwhile, I see no other option but to ask the community for help if NI is so ignorant.

 

Maybe some of the members can share their LabView 2017 SP1 installation files? I don't think it will be a copyright violation or something -

what can you do with it without the license? In any case, I would greatly appreciate any input and, maybe, perhaps an advise or a comment.

 

https://www.ni.com/en-ca/shop/software/products/embedded-control-and-monitoring-software-suite.html

 

We are looking for:

1. LabView2017SP1-WinEng

2. 2017SP1RealTime-WinEng

3. 2017SP1FPGAModule-WinEng

4. 2017SP1XILINXCompilationTools

 

Best Regards.

 

[dadreamer]

Not sure about the toolkits, but you can easily find LabVIEW 2017 SP1 download links having done just a proper googling:

http://download.ni.com/support/softlib/labview/labview_development_system/2017 SP1/2017sp1LV-WinEng.exe

http://download.ni.com/support/softlib/labview/labview_development_system/2017 SP1/2017sp1LV-64WinEng.exe

[ShaunR]

Try here.

[A Scottish moose]

22 hours ago, ShaunR said:

Try here.

I have frequently wondered on the 'Make it possible, but really inconvenient' approach to software legacy support that has become the norm amongst many large software corporations in the last few years.  I'm sure there is a  reason for taking this approach from the seller side but as an enthusiast/developer/consumer all I see is bad customer service...   

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

On 4/8/2022 at 10:08 PM, A Scottish moose said:

I have frequently wondered on the 'Make it possible, but really inconvenient' approach to software legacy support that has become the norm amongst many large software corporations in the last few years.  I'm sure there is a  reason for taking this approach from the seller side but as an enthusiast/developer/consumer all I see is bad customer service...   

It's common industry standard. So why should NI be an exception? Wanting to download Windows XP for whatever strange reason? Visual Studio 2005 or 2008, just to be a bit obnoxious? It all can be done, but no IT company is trying to make that simple without some special paid support contract. Why? One reason is that people who use those versions will eventually often need some kind of support too and giving even the most simple of support such as license activation or some installation troubles is significantly more effort to do for anything but the last version.

Edited April 10, 2022 by Rolf Kalbermatter

[Sam Dexter]

I could understand paying for support when you need support. But if you only need to download files?.. Plus not just some files but the files you've already paid for. This is nonsense. At the very least they could've provided the files when we contacted the support instead of bouncing us from one rep to another.

 

Thank you everybody for all your suggestions. I've searched all the ftp sites I could possibly find but, unfortunately, no luck. There is some stuff there, no doubt, but highly disorganized and not what we need. Most of the stuff goes up to 2014 anyways and then nothing... Very frustrating. Don't know what else we can do.

 

I wonder if I can use the Community Edition? Does anyone know if Community Edition has a Real Time module and FPGA support?

 

[hooovahh]

22 minutes ago, Sam Dexter said:

I wonder if I can use the Community Edition? Does anyone know if Community Edition has a Real Time module and FPGA support?

Community Edition is the same functionally as LabVIEW Professional.  The only difference is the license.  So to use RT or FPGA with Community Edition, theoretically you'll need to have access to those toolkits, just like you would for Professional.  I have not personally done this.

[ShaunR]

26 minutes ago, Sam Dexter said:

Thank you everybody for all your suggestions. I've searched all the ftp sites I could possibly find but, unfortunately, no luck.

It stops at 2018. all the stuff you listed is on the FTP site for 2017 just search the page for, wait for it, "2017"

[Neon_Light]

On 4/7/2022 at 8:52 PM, Sam Dexter said:

... to provide us with an upgrade to our software which we bought back in 2017. And this is going on for more than a year now.

 

The story is simple - our company bought a license for NI EMBEDDED CONTROL AND MONITORING SOFTWARE SUITE, USB,

SPR17, Rev 007, 2017.06.07 and we successfully downloaded the SP1 upgrade later on. The next year we bought a subscription

to LabView 2018 but did not renew it for 2019 and went back to using 2017. Meanwhile our downloaded SP1 files gone missing.

"No problem" - we thought - "We'll just go to the NI website and download our SP1."

 

https://www.ni.com/en-ca/support/downloads/software-products/download.embedded-control-and-monitoring-software-suite.html#306390

 

Not that fast! To download previous versions of LabView you need an active subscription. OK... So, how do you get missing pieces

for your software you have a license for if you do not have an active subscription? We contacted NI and their representative Newark

and asked them for help... Long story short - we are still waiting for a resolution.

 

Meanwhile, I see no other option but to ask the community for help if NI is so ignorant.

 

Maybe some of the members can share their LabView 2017 SP1 installation files? I don't think it will be a copyright violation or something -

what can you do with it without the license? In any case, I would greatly appreciate any input and, maybe, perhaps an advise or a comment.

 

https://www.ni.com/en-ca/shop/software/products/embedded-control-and-monitoring-software-suite.html

 

We are looking for:

1. LabView2017SP1-WinEng

2. 2017SP1RealTime-WinEng

3. 2017SP1FPGAModule-WinEng

4. 2017SP1XILINXCompilationTools

 

Best Regards.

 

Hello Sam,

Did you manage to solve your problem? I aks because I am running into the same problem.  Have got a valid serial number but .... one DVD is missing 

Same software etc. If you managed to solve the problem can you please tell me how you did solve it?

 

hope you can help, thanx !

 

 

 

 

[Neon_Light]

On 4/10/2022 at 2:38 PM, Rolf Kalbermatter said:

It's common industry standard. So why should NI be an exception? Wanting to download Windows XP for whatever strange reason? Visual Studio 2005 or 2008, just to be a bit obnoxious? It all can be done, but no IT company is trying to make that simple without some special paid support contract. Why? One reason is that people who use those versions will eventually often need some kind of support too and giving even the most simple of support such as license activation or some installation troubles is significantly more effort to do for anything but the last version.

 

Hello Rolf,

I am afraid this time I have to disagree. 

Agree

Dont get me wrong I think it is okay to pay for Labview, I really "value" the software. I did work with other testsoftware and although it is the price was lower or even free, the time needed to get to a working test-setup without bugs etc. made it more expensive. Thats only the price and with Labview you can do so much more than other testsoftware etc etc. So Yes I see there is a price tag and I think it is justified. 

Dont agree

Now for the parts I do not agree with.  Some testmachines can be complex expensive, much much much more expensive than the Labview license. These machines need to be reliable. They are used a lot and you can not simply change your software when you want to. For machines like this I would rather use the Old Labview version thats already running on the machine and use a new version when the total machine is being replaced. The decision what version to use should be up to the company who did build the machine and did buy the license. Not up to NI. If I take a look at the Ni website they are simply making it hard for you to download an old version. They should not do this. Introducing risk in expensive equipment is not wanted. Dont get me wrong I rather build new setups but a lot of times it is not wanted. And Yes I know you could ask cash for install files etc of old versions, but would this make my manager happy when I need to spend extra time on that? Will my manager be extra willing to pay for a new license when I need to spend a lot of time on ridicule subjects like this? Think not. If you add that a lot of managers simply are not able to understand advantages of a good product as Labview. Then you can get to the sum where the manager tells to quit using Labview.  Sorry to say but what I write it is realistic. btw the last time I did install MS windows on a laptop I did not even need a license key. It was already in the EEprom of the laptop. 

 

To be clear, I understand you need to pay for capable software and support, but downloading a old version you already paid for? This time I think the sales and marketing department of Ni dont get the point of selling software. And yes I understand installing old software can be annoying but if I dont pay for it is not up to Ni. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

So you expect Microsoft to let you download Visual Studio 2005 (or 2008, 2010, 2013, 2015) for free because you have somewhere a Windows XP machine running that runs a very expensive experiment where the hardware drivers don't support anything newer?

Bad luck for you but that is not an option (unless you want to resort to bogus download sites where you have to search for the right download button among a few dozen others trying to get scareware or worse onto your system, and/or the download itself is bogus or even malware invested).

You can buy a Microsoft Visual Studio Professional subscription however for ~1500 bucks a year and then you can actually download (most) of them.

Or you can of course download these packages when you have the license to access them and then safely archive the installer somewhere.

If you build such a specialist system and don't plan for having to sometimes in the future reinstall the whole stuff again (on new hardware or after a fatal crash) you only did part of the job for that project!

That works for LabVIEW (and many other software) the same, if there is even a possibility to download older versions!

[Ronin7]

1 hour ago, Neon_Light said:

 

Hello Rolf,

I am afraid this time I have to disagree. 

Agree

Dont get me wrong I think it is okay to pay for Labview, I really "value" the software. I did work with other testsoftware and although it is the price was lower or even free, the time needed to get to a working test-setup without bugs etc. made it more expensive. Thats only the price and with Labview you can do so much more than other testsoftware etc etc. So Yes I see there is a price tag and I think it is justified. 

Dont agree

Now for the parts I do not agree with.  Some testmachines can be complex expensive, much much much more expensive than the Labview license. These machines need to be reliable. They are used a lot and you can not simply change your software when you want to. For machines like this I would rather use the Old Labview version thats already running on the machine and use a new version when the total machine is being replaced. The decision what version to use should be up to the company who did build the machine and did buy the license. Not up to NI. If I take a look at the Ni website they are simply making it hard for you to download an old version. They should not do this. Introducing risk in expensive equipment is not wanted. Dont get me wrong I rather build new setups but a lot of times it is not wanted. And Yes I know you could ask cash for install files etc of old versions, but would this make my manager happy when I need to spend extra time on that? Will my manager be extra willing to pay for a new license when I need to spend a lot of time on ridicule subjects like this? Think not. If you add that a lot of managers simply are not able to understand advantages of a good product as Labview. Then you can get to the sum where the manager tells to quit using Labview.  Sorry to say but what I write it is realistic. btw the last time I did install MS windows on a laptop I did not even need a license key. It was already in the EEprom of the laptop. 

 

To be clear, I understand you need to pay for capable software and support, but downloading a old version you already paid for? This time I think the sales and marketing department of Ni dont get the point of selling software. And yes I understand installing old software can be annoying but if I dont pay for it is not up to Ni. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Rolf

Because some companies display sociopathic behavior toward their customers NI should do the same?  While that may be a reality that is an unconvincing argument.  The point in all of this is that the infrastructure is already there for a customer who has already paid for a lifetime product.  If they are so hard-up for money they could charge some sort of re-access fee, say $100, for the effort to keep the content available and the bandwidth used to provide the download.

As far as accusing someone of not doing all of their job if they did not predict that NI would totally shift paradigms as far as LabVIEW licensing and marketing, well then 99% of their user base is guilty of the same...

Edited November 3, 2023 by Ronin7

[ShaunR]

2 hours ago, Neon_Light said:

Hello Sam,

Did you manage to solve your problem? I aks because I am running into the same problem.  Have got a valid serial number but .... one DVD is missing 

Same software etc. If you managed to solve the problem can you please tell me how you did solve it?

 

hope you can help, thanx !

He should have. All the stuff he needed was on the NI site that I gave him a link to.

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

49 minutes ago, Ronin7 said:

As far as accusing someone of not doing all of their job if they did not predict that NI would totally shift paradigms as far as LabVIEW licensing and marketing, well then 99% of their user base is guilty of the same...

You won't like it but you could never officially download software from the NI site other than the latest version to use as evaluation download without a maintenance support contract. If you were not logged in with an account that had a current maintenance support contract associated, selection of previous versions were blocked from the Download website ever since that Download page got active.

And NI never ever guaranteed anywhere that you could keep downloading software as far back as you liked. Not even with a maintenance support contract or nowadays a subscription. Even if you pay for it, it is a service that is delivered as is, without any guarantees that you can continue to download older version (for instance LabVIEW 7.1, just to name one very old version) which you indeed can't and never will be able to download anywhere officially.

So if you build a system that requires a specific version for whatever reason and don't archive all and every piece of that system somewhere, the problem is definitely up your sleeve and always has been.

As for charging a 100 dollar fee to download software, that may sound an interesting option. But unfortunately companies of the size of NI nowadays will not even lift a telephone of the hook for that amount. Why? Until the order is booked, payment processed, accounting had its pee over the transaction, shipment (or access to the file organized), the whole thing has cost many times more than those 100 bucks.

Edited November 3, 2023 by Rolf Kalbermatter

[Neon_Light]

1 hour ago, ShaunR said:

He should have. All the stuff he needed was on the NI site that I gave him a link to.

Thanx, I did already download the files. Hope they work. So these files are the same as on the DVD? Or the ones you can get with a package manager? Any tips for keeping the old Labview install (which is a newer version) undamaged?

thanx again

 

 

[Neon_Light]

1 hour ago, Rolf Kalbermatter said:

You won't like it but you could never officially download software from the NI site other than the latest version to use as evaluation download without a maintenance support contract. If you were not logged in with an account that had a current maintenance support contract associated, selection of previous versions were blocked from the Download website ever since that Download page got active.

And NI never ever guaranteed anywhere that you could keep downloading software as far back as you liked. Not even with a maintenance support contract or nowadays a subscription. Even if you pay for it, it is a service that is delivered as is, without any guarantees that you can continue to download older version (for instance LabVIEW 7.1, just to name one very old version) which you indeed can't and never will be able to download anywhere officially.

So if you build a system that requires a specific version for whatever reason and don't archive all and every piece of that system somewhere, the problem is definitely up your sleeve and always has been.

As for charging a 100 dollar fee to download software, that may sound an interesting option. But unfortunately companies of the size of NI nowadays will not even lift a telephone of the hook for that amount. Why? Until the order is booked, payment processed, accounting had its pee over the transaction, shipment (or access to the file organized), the whole thing has cost many times more than those 100 bucks.

 

Can you even get a maintenance support contract on old versions? Or can you only get it on the new versions where you need to pay every year?

 

 

 

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

10 minutes ago, Neon_Light said:

Can you even get a maintenance support contract on old versions? Or can you only get it on the new versions where you need to pay every year?

No you can't anymore. NI added subscription licenses in November or December of 2021 to the order system, and discontinued perpetual development licenses on January 1, 2022.

After that date they did officially not sell any non-subscription licenses anymore. For a little while you could try to appease a sales representative and if you were good and did it long enough, they could still put an order for a perpetual license into the system, but I'm pretty sure that possibility has long been removed since.

You could buy a subscription for one year. It gives you the right to download older versions too. If you use the old serial number, it will allow to use the old installation up to the point your maintenance contract expired. If you use the new serial number that comes with the subscription purchase, you can run old versions for as long as your subscription is valid.

[Neon_Light]

7 minutes ago, Rolf Kalbermatter said:

No you can't anymore. NI added subscription licenses in November or December of 2021 to the order system, and discontinued perpetual development licenses on January 1, 2022.

After that date they did officially not sell any non-subscription licenses anymore. For a little while you could try to appease a sales representative and if you were good and did it long enough, they could still put an order for a perpetual license into the system, but I'm pretty sure that possibility has long been removed since.

You could buy a subscription for one year. It gives you the right to download older versions too. If you use the old serial number, it will allow to use the old installation up to the point your maintenance contract expired. If you use the new serial number that comes with the subscription purchase, you can run old versions for as long as your subscription is valid.

OW well I have got until 23:59 to use this license ... hope I can install the other 2018 after that. 

I know some big companies have got volume licenses would be happy if my work had one of those. that would be a relaxing thought. They are relative cheap compared to the licenses which only enable a few to people to work with. but then you need 5 or more employee's  who use Labview I think.

 

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

The 5 and 10 volume license give you some discount. But it still adds up. And the real volume licenses for large sites are indeed relatively cheap for what you get but I doubt your company is willing to shelf out 50k or more even if it allows them to have 500 licenses to be used. 😀

[Neon_Light]

29 minutes ago, Rolf Kalbermatter said:

The 5 and 10 volume license give you some discount. But it still adds up. And the real volume licenses for large sites are indeed relatively cheap for what you get but I doubt your company is willing to shelf out 50k or more even if it allows them to have 500 licenses to be used. 😀

I think they are willing but hard to convince, its like chicken egg, chicken egg, chicken egg. etc and then they go like lets have carrots we understand that! 

What I mean is you need a team to build up knowledge and experience. That costs money like a few licenses. When they, the managers can see what can be done with it then they are willing to pay.   

That is the same as with software as Altium, Matlab,  other CAD software, etc 

If I cant get the software working I am certain the chicken or egg will die. 

[Neon_Light]

On 11/3/2023 at 6:28 PM, ShaunR said:

He should have. All the stuff he needed was on the NI site that I gave him a link to.

Hey ShaunR, most of it did work, the only thing the install complained about was:

 

"Install National Instruments Device Drivers Now?"

 

Are these also on one of the files you linked to? Or do I need to download them seperately?

 

Thanx for the help ! Now I am happy again I hope I can build some nice things and convince my managers etc. to buy a new license ...

 

 

 

[Neon_Light]

This might be a little bit of-topic but I think you also use Matlab code in  Labview? I see a lot of files with the name Mathscript is this the software needed to use Matlab ? or is it something completely different ?

[Rolf Kalbermatter]

On 11/5/2023 at 4:15 PM, Neon_Light said:

This might be a little bit of-topic but I think you also use Matlab code in  Labview? I see a lot of files with the name Mathscript is this the software needed to use Matlab ? or is it something completely different ?

MathScript was the mathematic node that used to be NI's attempt to make a Matlab clone. It sort of worked similar to Matlab and could execute Matlab scripts to some extend. But it was of course never a full replacement for Matlab and NI eventually stopped pursuing MathScript any further. Since LabVIEW 2023 MathScript has been removed from LabVIEW. NI recommends to use Matlab now to implement those scripts https://www.ni.com/docs/en-US/bundle/daqexpress/page/migrate-to-interface-for-matlab.html

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Rolf Kalbermatter

[ShaunR]

17 hours ago, Neon_Light said:

Hey ShaunR, most of it did work, the only thing the install complained about was:

"Install National Instruments Device Drivers Now?"

Are these also on one of the files you linked to? Or do I need to download them seperately?

Device drivers are on a separate installation DVD (it'll be 10's of GB). While they are probably on the FTP site somewhere, you can download it from the main NI website.

Edited November 6, 2023 by ShaunR

[X___]

Similar story here. A hardware vendor suggested I tried the 32-bit version of LabVIEW to figure out a problem I had encountered. I went to the website to download the installer of my permanent license LabVIEW 2021, only to be greeted with grayed out download links and a message according to which:

Quote

Previous versions are available only to customers with an active subscription license or service agreement for this product. Purchase a license or update your service information in your NI User Account to access locked versions.

It turns out there is no way to update any service information, so I called NI tech support and magically got someone to pick up the phone right away, listen to my description of the situation and after verification, offer to send me a link to the installer download.

I am still fighting with Microsoft OneDrive to get to that installer download, but the bottom line is that NI Emulsion is apparently willing to waste the time of their tech support employees to access software installer that they were entitled to according to the initial term of their license. Until they won't?